Pipe and Drape: The Theatre For Young Audiences Podcast: Episode 33: Sara Morgulis

[Pipe and Drape theme plays.]

STEPHEN FALA: I’m Stephen Fala, and you’re listening to Pipe and Drape, the only podcast that spotlights the creative minds behind the Theatre For Young Audiences industry. Join me every two weeks as I sit down with a theatre professional to unlock their pipe and drape stories. These are the (often untold) stories of the creators behind the pipe and drape scenery in the theatre for young audiences world. Theatre for young audiences (or TYA) inspires young minds by entertaining audiences with topics big and little in any and every setting. My guests have mounted shows small enough to fit in a minivan to productions so big they travel by caravan, and on this podcast we discuss the ways theatre for young audiences helps all artists and theatregoers make this world a better place.

Hi everyone! I’m chatting with Theatre for Young Audiences/USA Executive Director Sara Morgulis. Sara’s pipe and drape story has origins in the Philadelphia theatre scene and through the years brought her across the Atlantic to London and most recently Havana! Before leading TYA/USA, Sara was the recipient of TYA/USA’s Ann Shaw Fellowship Award in 2015. She’s spoken at conferences, events, on podcasts, and in classrooms; developed multiple TYA shows; directed; performed; and after settling in NYC served as the Director of Programs at Actionplay and the Director of Education at New York City Children’s Theater. Right now, in addition to leading TYA/USA, Sara is an Adjunct Faculty Member for the MFA Performing Arts Management Program at Brooklyn College and a Board Member of the NYC Arts in Education Roundtable. Sara and I were ships passing in the night for many years while growing up in Delaware County, Pennsylvania, and in 2022 she brought me onto the TYA/USA team! Right now we are off the clock and on mic, Sara, welcome.

SARA MORGULIS: Thank you so much for having me, Stephen. I'm so excited to be here.

STEPHEN: I’m really excited to learn more about your pipe and drape story because we've chatted, I mean like, beginning two years ago in interviews about how we were both at Upper Darby Summer Stage together…we were like classrooms apart from each other. And then you were performing in the Philly theatre scene at People's Light with a lot of the same people who were working with me at Hedgerow on the other side of the area.

SARA: We were truly ships passing in the night for years, Stephen. I'm sure we were in Upper Darby Summer Stage together singing that song in the same room. We didn't even realize it.

STEPHEN: Yeah, right! We were probably at Springfield Mall, like on opposite ends of Aéroposale at some point together.

SARA: Yes. You at the cash register, me in the women’s section [Laughter.] Truly.

STEPHEN: Yeah! Was your experience at People's Light your first introduction to theatre?

SARA: Yes. So when I was eight years old, I think I was probably bossing everyone around and was talking to everybody in class and just being a little loud mouth. And so I think my mom noticed that I probably wanted everybody's attention and signed me up for drama camp at People's Light and I immediately fell in love with it. I think that there were a hundred kids ages nine to thirteen in the camp, which was super ambitious and it was a summer of devising new work. So they first taught us some skills and improv and, you know, playwriting. And every day in the morning we would be together all as one big group. And then in the afternoon or later that morning we would like go off into smaller groups and do some devising. And it was incredible because as a young person, I was around thirteen year olds and I was sort of always hanging out with kids that were older than me. And I think that that was really exciting as a young person as well that I wasn't grouped with just kids in my grade, like at school. And I just immediately got hooked. And the cool thing about People's Light's camp is that it was all taught by their resident actors. So you would go and be at camp and see all the actors that had performed in their shows earlier that year. So it all felt very professional and cool and exciting and I was so hooked. I was there all the years that I could be when I was a young person. And then I joined as a teaching artist or, you know, as a camp counselor when I was a teenager.

STEPHEN: That’s so cool. And I love hearing that one of your early experiences was devising, especially just because like later on you went to devise pieces, and now a lot of the work that we witness is devised and it's like really collaborative in nature.

SARA: For sure. And it also made it, Stephen, so that by the time I got to Upper Darby Summer Stage, it felt so different to be performing scripted content, and it was a completely different experience. So I was at People's Light (so I kind of bounced around) I was at People's Light and then I went to Upper Darby Summer Stage for a few summers and performed in their shows and then bounced back to People's Light as a teaching artist. But I loved the Upper Darby Summer Stage for the same reason that I was, you know, maybe a fourteen year old and I was creating shows with sixteen year olds and seventeen year olds and that the quality of the work was phenomenal. I was trying to remember tonight, and I even Googled it because in my memory there are like five thousand kids at Upper Darby Summer Stage when in actuality there are only seven hundred fifty. But I remember knowing as a young person how impressive it was because it was run so beautifully and there were so many young people and we always felt so taken care of and the shows were so consistently good. Every show was excellent that summer and it's just such an incredibly run program.

STEPHEN: Yeah. I remember seeing Summer Stage shows before I was in them like being a kid watching other kids and like being like, ‘Oh my God, this is,’ (‘cause I know really what Broadway was) but I was like, ‘this is Broadway, this is like amazing.’

SARA: It was.

STEPHEN: Yeah.

SARA: For sure. Oh, for sure. And especially the mainstage. I mean the mainstage really was, though when you and I were there, it was like full of Broadway actors and people that went on to Broadway. So we really were seeing Broadway performances and it was just so impressive and it felt so professional.

STEPHEN: Yeah. And it was…it’s interesting ‘cause like I would see shows there over the summer and then during the year stuff would come to my elementary school and I would be just as impressed by what they were doing in my school gymnasium. Did you have in your school, like elementary school, did people come in and bring shows to you?

SARA: People’s Light did, actually–

STEPHEN: Oh, okay!

SARA: –which always felt very exciting for me because I got to brag to everyone that I went to summer camp there and then I took classes there and sometimes I would know the actors that would come and visit, which instantly makes me a celebrity. So People's Light came and I can't remember anyone else beyond that coming to Episcopal, which was the school that I went to. No, I really think it was just People's Light.

STEPHEN: Okay, interesting. I like, and that's the thing, I don't even know who came to perform in my elementary school. We had a program with Hedgerow Theatre where our school would take students to like go see shows at Hedgerow, like just student matinees.

SARA: Oh, cool.

STEPHEN: Yeah. And so I had that experience where like since I was a Hedgerow kid, being like, ‘Oh, I know this actor, this actor, this actor that's on their stage.’

SARA: Yes. No, I mean, it's so important. Exposure to professional theater as a young person is I think imperative. And that's one of the reasons that I've loved working in New York City schools during my time as an arts educator because some of the public schools in New York City are so saturated, like they are going to New Victory Theatre for a matinee and then they're going to New York City Children's Theater for matinee and going to Lincoln Center. And some of them, you know, if their principals really care about the arts and are passionate about arts exposure for their young people, they have all of these incredible opportunities in their backyard.

STEPHEN: Yeah. So you were touring to all of the boroughs, even Staten Island with NYC Children's Theater?

SARA: Yes, that was actually one of our, like calling cards at New York City Children's Theater was that we would even go to Staten Island–

STEPHEN: [Laughter.]

SARA: –because so many arts education organizations in the city do not because it can take a very long time. We also had a bunch of teaching artists, or not a bunch, we had a handful of teaching artists at one time that lived in Staten Island, and so that made it very convenient. But yes, during my time at New York City Children's Theater, I was there for eleven years and the most work that we did of the five boroughs, we were in the Bronx and in Queens. And so that was really exciting, to be going to those boroughs the most and fulfilling need out there where maybe some arts organizations weren't going as far out. So that was really incredible. And there were years at New York City Children's Theater where we were in like over one hundred schools and community centers per year, and especially when we were running the programming and transitional housing shelters because we were in thirty six shelters a year, so we were really reaching all five boroughs in a very exciting way. And that teaching artist roster was extraordinary and is extraordinary. There was a time pre-pandemic in 2019 when we had forty six teaching artists on the roster and there was really a need for that. But I think that, or I'm confident that Maddie [Callendrilllo], who is my successor at New York City Children's Theater has been building the programming backup in really exciting ways as well.

STEPHEN: That’s so cool. Where there different lesson plans per location or was it all pretty much similar regardless of how many people or where you were?

SARA: Super different lesson plans. So specifically for the transitional housing program, it was really unique, Stephen, because it was for pre-K through fifth grade, all in one group. And I was just talking about People's Light, sort of like lumping ages together. And I think sometimes it's advantageous to separate out grades, but I do think that there's so much excitement and sometimes benefit in grouping young people together. A benefit of it in that program was that we would have siblings together who were able to play and have their Friday afternoons together. And that felt really exciting. But those lesson plans were really specific because we had to choose books. It was a a Friday afternoon programming that explored books through theatre and songwriting. And so we had to choose books that would be young enough for a four year old, but kind of cool and interesting enough for an eleven year old. So it was really challenging. And the teaching artists were like wizards in figuring out how to scaffold in the lessons so that it was engaging for that huge age group. And even for the schools in all five boroughs, we had super specific lesson plans because, especially towards the end of my time, we were developing more and more bilingual teaching artists on our roster who then could go in and speak in one or two or even three different languages in the classroom with their teaching artists. So we had a lot of like culturally specific lesson plans and bilingual books for that reason, which was really exciting.

STEPHEN: That’s really neat and such an asset to have teaching artists that are multilingual. Just because, and this is something that I didn't realize until I moved to New York…we were like touring puppet shows to different parks and we had tracks to do the show in three different languages. It really is like so important to have that up here. And so I I learned a lot.

SARA: You know what's really exciting, Stephen, the show that I created in 2015 for New York City Children's Theater is called Five and they have now developed a bilingual version of it called Cinco that is gonna be touring to all five boroughs in the fall! And that will be part of the artistic department, so the mainstage department, the mainstage season. And that's an example of how the two departments are working together. And so they'll be really exciting to see. I have not seen the bilingual version of it and I cannot wait.

STEPHEN: That’s, oh my gosh, that's awesome. Congratulations.

SARA: Oh, thank you. I'm so excited for them.

STEPHEN: Were you involved in revisiting that material to translate it?

SARA: I was not. I mean, I'm not a fluent Spanish speaker and they certainly like kept me updated throughout it. But I'm really excited to check it out. I can't wait and I cannot wait to bring my son Hunter and have him experience it too.

STEPHEN: Yeah. Is he learning Spanish?

SARA: He is learning Spanish. He… [Laughter.] I was joking with him before my trip to Cuba that he knew more Spanish than I did because all of the time he would just randomly say Spanish words. The other day we were walking through our neighborhood and he went, “Casa,” and I didn't know that he knew the word for health in Spanish. It really surprised me and he very proudly speaks to ten in Spanish almost every day.

STEPHEN: Wow. Good. Oh that's awesome.

SARA: I know, I think it's cool, too.

STEPHEN: That’s, that's so neat to have this show that you worked on almost ten years ago come back in this way. And so…I guess you could say that the development of this started when you were shadowing…you were visiting Oily Cart to see what their process was. Would you be able to speak a little bit about observing that company and how that influenced your work over here?

SARA: Oh, I would love to. That was exactly it, Stephen, in that timeline. So in 2014 I was noticing that we were doing a lot of work in District 75, which is the special education district in New York City. And New York City Children's Theater was adapting its literature play curriculum to go into District 75 schools. But I was really dreaming about creating a brand new play with that audience in mind. And at that time I was the associate education director or maybe even the education administrator and I was working really closely with my director of education, Brooke Boertzel, who is a phenomenal playwright and TYA creator. And she and I started dreaming up some ideas of what it could look like. And so I applied for the Ann Shaw Fellowship for TYA/USA, and I think it's important to share that I didn't get it the first year and they said like, ‘Come back and try again.’ And I share that part of the journey because there have been a lot of things in my life that I've tried for and haven't gotten and then have tried again and it's worked out, and I think that's important to say. So then I dreamt about going back and how amazing that would be for that process. So I applied again and then got it and I was able to go to London for two weeks one summer. It was like such a luxury. And I toured with this show called The Bounce. And The Bounce has two huge trampolines that go into schools and they tour with these huge trampolines and there's like two different versions of the show. There's a version of the show that is for autistic audiences and there's a version of the show that is for what they refer to in the UK as PMLD profound and multiple learning disabilities audiences. And the two types of the shows were very different. But the whole point of the show is that it was exploring kind of like relationships and exploring like movement through bouncing on these trampolines and they had this incredible live soundtrack on these gorgeous instruments and it was so incredible to learn from that group. From that group, I learned about sensory play and the benefits of sensory play with audiences. I learned about the gift of silence in theatre and specifically in the classroom; up close interaction and how really meaningful theater does not have to have a very strong narrative or even much dialogue at all, but that you can establish really beautiful, meaningful engagement without those things. And Oily Cart has been such an inspiration for me my entire career and those two weeks were just extraordinary in touring with them and they were so generous with me. They took me to all of the shows and would chat with me on the Tube and would go out to lunch and talk about their process. And so I really got to soak it all up. And when I came back to New York City, I co-wrote the show Five with Brooke that was about exploring the five boroughs of New York City through the five senses. And Five was such a labor of love and I think it's great to talk about it as sort of just like on your feet low cost theatre and that we were running around all five boroughs of New York City. And my husband, who's a filmmaker, had his camera with him and I was the puppeteer for it, and we had so much fun creating the videos for the program because I was so inspired by the fact that Oily Cart used live video streaming and video in their shows so effectively. And I knew that District 75 schools had smart boards in their classrooms and could accommodate live video or could accommodate a video at all. So I was really excited to create like a multimedia production that incorporated live music with video elements and songs as well as sensory elements. So I was really kind of like bold and optimistic about bringing all these different elements in together and it was so much fun to tour around New York City and we toured to both District 75 schools and also pre-K centers, which were brand new to the city at that time. So Bill de Blasio, our former mayor, had just pumped all of this money into pre-K, and so for the first time there were these pre-K centers popping up and they needed arts programming. So we were also specifically targeting creating shows for that age as well.

STEPHEN: Cool. And so as far as like gathering materials to do this, what did you find to represent each of the different boroughs?

SARA: It’s such a fun question. So let's see if I can remember them all offhand. So Manhattan: we wanted to explore the sense of sight and so we chose all these LED lights that the students could touch and play with, ‘cause We wanted to play with the, our sense of sight in Times Square. In Brooklyn we were touching the sand and the waves and the towels in Coney Island. So we brought in kinetic sand and spray bottles for the water and towels, like little pieces of towels. In the Bronx we went to the Bronx Botanic Garden and so we smelled flowers, and in Staten Island we rode the Staten Island Ferry. So we heard the sounds of the waves and the ship and we would make the sounds together as a class. And the final was Queens and we tasted all sorts of like new tastes in the markets in Queens. But I have heard that since they've redone the taste song at New York City Children's Theater for the show. So I'm really excited to hear the new taste song when I got with Hunter.

STEPHEN: Oh yeah. And so you said it opens this fall?

SARA: It opens this fall and they're touring it to all five boroughs. I think that they're choosing the sites now. And so I'm really excited to go.

STEPHEN: Yeah, that's something that I am very curious about, like choosing what schools to go to with (I mean like with any of the shows.) Like when you were director of education, I know there's a huge staff and a lot of things are coordinated, but choosing where to go, who has time for the show, ‘cause it’s…scheduling is such a thing. And then making sure, the actors aren't doing like five million shows in different locations a day. Was that part of your duty as director of education to figure that out?

SARA: It was, Stephen. So it was really just a lot of outreach in the different boroughs. By the time I left we had rotating casts because we had so much demand for the show that we finally got two casts so we could send them all out. In each cast there was one puppeteer and one musician who played guitar. And they both had to be really strong singers so they could harmonize and sing together. But having the two casts was really excellent and there were days that both casts went out, which was really exciting.

STEPHEN: Were you involved with the casting for that as well?

SARA: I was, yeah. Most years that I was there, I cast and directed the show and then my…I wanna say in maybe like 2017, 2018, 2019, we hired someone to direct it so that they could be out in rehearsal during the day. I think that our days just got way too packed when I was trying to direct and also manage programming, especially because that would happen at the start of the fall when we were already hiring and training teaching artists and specifically working in the transitional housing programming. We had a lot of trauma informed training for our teaching artists that happened at the start of the year as well. So it was just so much easier for us to hire someone to direct the show. And we hired this lovely person named Rachel Gubow, who was a performer in Five. And so she knew the show in and out and could get give everyone lots of tips. It was excellent.

STEPHEN: Good. You're wearing so many hats in this role and then, I mean, at TYA/USA, too, there's so many things involved in your every day. I don't know how you do it. But like as director of education balancing all of these things…’cause that's a lot of work: doing outreach, getting funding…this is a huge skillset. Where did you pick all of these things up?

SARA: I had really great mentors, and also when I was in this role as the director of education, I had an amazing staff. So, like I always say, Stephen, at TYA/USA that you and Rachel [Lee] are there, that TYA/USA functions as it does and we get so much done because the staff is phenomenal and that you and Rachel are so phenomenal. So it was the exact same way at New York City Children’s Theater, we were able to be in so many schools because the education team was so strong. Where did I learn to do all those things? I mean, at New York City Children's Theater, honestly. I had one year at Asolo Repertory Theatre as their education intern right after I graduated from Syracuse with my BFA in acting and I wanted to get some experience in an education department and they really threw me in the deep end in terms of like giving me tons of directing responsibility, having me staff and send out the ed outreach programming, and that was great in terms of giving me skills, and I had amazing mentors when I was there as well. So Kelli Bragdon, who's now at the Van Wezel, Leah Page who's a TYA/USA member and is a full-time professor now. So folks who taught me really early on those skills. And then I went to New York City Children’s Theater and was mentored by Brooke, the director of education there. And I was also…I learned so much in different ways in my grad program at the MA and Applied Theater at CUNY. Now they didn't teach me sort of like administrative skills or email skills or sort of executive functioning stuff, but what they did teach me is how to be a good facilitator and a good communicator. And those skills are invaluable and help me every day in my job. It's like soaking up all those experiences. And I think I've always been really curious when I see leaders that lead really well and I admire them. Honestly, like I try to befriend them and kind of follow what they do because I've learned so much from being part of the New York City Arts in Ed Roundtable, like you brought that up earlier in the intro and I've learned a lot from being on committees for the Roundtable and for the Face to Face Conference and eventually on the board. Their incredible staff, their incredible board is made up of really phenomenal arts ed leaders in New York City whose careers I just admire greatly and have watched from afar or up close for years. And so whenever I've seen someone lead with grace, I always try to kind of lean in and learn how they do that and soak up whatever I can.

STEPHEN: I’m also so curious about…’cause you’re such an advocate for making theatre accessible to everyone everywhere, not only the people watching it, but also the people that are, are working on it, too, how did you learn so much about making theater accessible? You know, like financially you're making sure everyone is able to absorb their performance properly. Like what sort of training ground or mentors did you have in that part of the field?

SARA: When I was at Syracuse and I started to be really interested in theater education, I took up this education minor and randomly took this class in special education that wasn't really a class in special education. It was a class in disability advocacy and disability justice. And I learned a lot in that class and really started to be interested in the intersection of disability studies and arts. And so when I left Syracuse and went down to Asolo Rep, one of the things that I did that year was co-lead their Kaleidoscope program, which is a devising musical theatre program for adults with developmental disabilities. And I co-led that with like Broadway legend Annie Morrison, who originated the role of Mary and Merrily We Roll Along, which is hilarious and wild, but she's a phenomenal artist and advocate and educator, so I learned from her. And then when I was living in Florida, I watched the HBO doc Autism: the Musical and was like, ‘Oh, that looks so fun.’ Like devising theatre with young people with autism made me so excited and curious. So when I moved to New York City (talk about total coincidence) I like cold called the guy who ran the Miracle Project. So the Miracle Project was what the doc was based on, they were out in LA but I knew that some guy had moved to New York and was making The Miracle Project-New York. So I called that guy, that guy was Aaron Feinstein and said, ‘I would love to come and join your group.’ And he brought me on as a volunteer. And so then eventually I became their administrator and their programming director and we veered out of Miracle Project-New York and into an organization called Actionplay. So Actionplay was a huge part of my life. During the entire time I was at New York City Children's Theater up until a couple of years ago when I joined TYA/USA and Actionplay is still kicking it and doing awesome. And Aaron was a humongous mentor for me during that time in terms of teaching me about accessibility and disability inclusion. And it's been really phenomenal, Stephen, because I was talking to a a colleague about this recently. When I came to the city back in 2011, there was not that much theatre that was for, and especially with autistic actors and artists in the city. And now there is so much more and there's so much more disability arts in New York and that's really phenomenal. Another part of my training was I took a course called The Disability Arts New York Task Force. They ran like a bootcamp one summer and that was a couple of weeks of training alongside disability artists and activists. And that was extraordinary training. So I would say that plus the LEAD Conference was really an incredible opportunity for me to network and meet more disabled artists and really become part of that world.

STEPHEN: Yeah. What are some of the efforts, I guess within TYA/USA or like outside of our organization that are happening to educate theatre administrators but also like artists that are looking to make their work more accessible?

SARA: I think the thing that is catching on more and more is that theatres are recognizing that they need to hire disabled artists and disabled self-advocates to be part of the work from the beginning. And that more and more folks aren’t just seeing accessibility as like an afterthought and are now starting at the beginning and bringing it in as part of the programming. So that the programming can be inspired by access and it's not just being tacked on at the end. And, you know, I carry this really close to my chest in terms of how we develop our conference, Stephen, and how we develop our festival. I would say like a really tiny step that I've been able to take in the field that I've been proud of is saying to agents and saying to presenters that the shows that we present at the festival need to have a sensory guide with them for us to share with our attendees. And I think it's exciting when they don't know what a sensory guide is because then I have a moment to send them a couple of examples and ask them to create one and say that this is a pre-req for us to be able to present this work at the festival. So I think that's like a tiny step that we're taking in terms of spreading awareness and just normalizing access. I'll say that you also asked about financial accessibility and I wanna speak about accessibility more broadly than just disability inclusion because obviously there's so much intersectionality with accessibility. What I will say about financial access, and I shared this anecdote on a call today, when I received the fellowship back in 2015, I couldn't afford to go to the conference. And I talked about that when I interviewed for the position at TYA/USA and I said one of my goals will be to make our programming more financially accessible, even if that means that we need to bring in more sponsorship income in order to offset registration income. So, you know, I mean you were like on the ground with us, that we decreased our registration prices and created a scholarship program so that more folks who are students and early career professionals and independent artists could come and join us. ‘Cause I think it’s so imperative to have those folks in the room and I wanna prioritize bringing those folks in the room. I see access for our festival and conference as a creative challenge. That I really try to look at our programming and say, ‘What are all the ways that I can set up our attendees for success?’ So things like us creating a visual story of the conference that has all the photos of the buildings and the maps and you know, like telling people when there will be bathroom breaks, like that is setting everyone up for success so that they know what to expect. Because conferences are really overwhelming. They are exhausting no matter whether you're running it or you're an attendee. They're a very intense experience and we wanna set everyone up to have a really fun and joyful time. So I try to have access as the center of what I create, whether that's like our festival or conference or whether it's a weird immersive sensory friendly show that I'm creating.

STEPHEN: I love that. I mean, I have to tell you, I didn't know what like…our visual story for the conference? I did not know what that was until I came to TYA/USA and it was mentioned in an email and I was like, ‘Is this a thing that happens at conferences that I'm missing?’ And then I'm realizing, no, [Laughter.] it's not. And so then I like learned, and you told me what it was and I was like, ‘Oh, this is great because I have not been to Tempe, Arizona before.’ And my one friend is…she works in tech and she goes to a bunch of different conferences and I was telling her and she’s like, ‘I wish we had that because I have no idea what’s going on or where I’m going.’ So it's that and like image descriptions for photos, it’s all these things that I’m learning…that I didn't expect to learn in taking this position.

SARA: And Stephen, I wanna spotlight that for you, ‘cause that’s an enormous amount of work, those image descriptions, you know, and that’s an important thing that we talk about too, and accessibility is that accessibility isn’t easy and it shouldn't be easy and we should prioritize it. And you do that every day in your work for our marketing and our communications. You’re putting up those image descriptions and you’re making sure that the slides that you’re creating are accessible just in terms of imaging. And it’s so appreciated and valued. And I think that it’s…I’m really proud that we've made it a central value of our work and it takes time and hard work and money and that's important.

STEPHEN: Yeah.

SARA: I also wanna recognize that we’re constantly learning, and one of my favorite moments of my job every year is when we send out…two things: when we send out our conference survey and when we send out our member survey, because we can have a sense of how we’re doing internally, but it’s so important for us to get feedback from the field and specifically about accessibility. We may take big swings at events or we may like dip our toes in to the field in some way, and then we keep figuring out how to do better. And it’s so important to recognize like accessibility is not a checklist and that it is like an ongoing process. And just because maybe something worked really well in Tempe doesn’t translate to the fact that it's gonna work well in Atlanta. And just because something worked well in Atlanta doesn’t mean it’ll work well in Washington, D.C. next year at our conference. So knowing that we’re learning so much and we still have so much more to grow.

STEPHEN: That’s true. I’m excited to see the results of this year’s members survey to see…

SARA: Member survey, yeah! Yes. Oh, it’s my favorite. [Laughter.] It gives us new ideas also for what to keep building on and where to keep dreaming.

STEPHEN: I love looking out into the field and seeing new things that are happening or trends. I mean, we just released our article, Erin [Keith]’s article about the popular shows and titles that are happening and, you know, I wish I could drive around…We were talking about, you mentioned like last week that we could go and see everything and talk to all these people. But just looking at like these different titles that we’re doing and a lot of like traditional…like I'm looking at the article right now and how some of these things keep popping up, these older titles. But just going through and seeing different ways that theaters are presenting these stories, like who they are casting, what type of things they are doing to change up…like Wizard of Oz, I'm thinking of just because I know I've done it a million times and I'm like, ‘How can we make this different now?’ And then people find ways to really, to change it up and like broaden the way people think and I think that inspires more and more art.

SARA: Totally, creative adaptations. Oh, a hundred percent, Stephen. I always say my first TYA experience that I remember was a production of Peter Pan at People's Light, and I think I was like five years old, but I remember that they did it in such a phenomenal, innovative way that like really blew my mind. So it’s not to say that like classic titles cannot be reimagined to be really inventive and fabulous.

STEPHEN: Yeah. What are some of the trends in the field that you’re the most excited about going into the 2024/2025 season?

SARA: We’re seeing more and more co-productions and that's really exciting. Also, when we talk about adaptations, they don’t need to be like super classic titles. Like the example that I’m thinking of now that's both a co-production and an adaptation is a production of Milo's Imagination [Milo Imagines the World]. That is one of my favorite new picture books that is being co-produced by several TYA theatres. So we’re seeing that more and more, which is really exciting. And a continuation of producing theatre starting to present more. Specifically Idris Goodwin, who is the artistic director at Seattle Children's Theater and the board president of TYA/USA is presenting several shows next year at Seattle Children's Theatre. And so that is exciting, too. I think in the industry right now, there's so much challenge and you know, TYA theatres are challenged right now through funding and inflation and bringing their audiences back slowly. And so the more that we can work together, whether it’s producing theatres or presenting theatres and figure out this time together, the better we'll be all for it.

STEPHEN: Yeah. Is there anything in your pipe and drape journey that you're like, ‘I must share this story, this adventure, this funny thing a kid said one time,’ that I can throw in?

SARA: I will say that it has been a really magical experience becoming a parent working in TYA. I’ve always been really jealous of my friends who are artists who have their kids in the room. Growing up at People’s Light, they prioritized having young people as professional actors in their shows. And so it always had this like lovely multi-generational rehearsal room that I found really inspiring as a young person. And specifically in 2019, I was an associate producer for the Up Close Festival, which was a festival about West Village history featuring TYA companies. And in that rehearsal room…we had a lot of kids in the room like the artists’ kids. And that was so fun. And I remember in 2019, like dreaming about being a parent and having my kid in the rehearsal room. I have a three year old now, and it has been so wonderful to bring him to TYA. I brought him to a couple of TVY shows and that was so amazing. And most recently I brought Hunter to Honolulu Theatre for Youth's production of The Pa‘akai We Bring at Lincoln Center, which we programmed into the festival in Tempe in 2023. And I love the show, and I was so excited to share it with Hunter, but he was like two and a half, and the show is suggested for a much older age group. And so I was a little nervous. We sat on the aisle in case we needed to run out. We were also at the relaxed performance. And he sat through the entire thing ,and we were in like the fourth row. And at one point he said to me, ‘Mama, can we go on the carpet?’ And so then we like walked down and we sat on the carpet, which was set up on the stage for the audience if they wanted to sit really close. And he really soaked it all up. And Stephen, that was the most magical moment I’ve had bringing my son to theatre because I hope that he’ll be a theatre goer, but in the very least it's important to me that he values the arts and the way that Nick and I do. I also feel really lucky that we’re out here in New Jersey, I now live about an hour away from the city, from our little Times Square office, and we're lucky that we have Paper Mill Playhouse so close to us. And I have a lot of pals even from Syracuse that grew up at Paper Mill just in the way that I grew up at People’s Light. So sometimes I kind of dream and imagine Hunter as like a Paper Mill kid, but I'm not pushing him to be an actor by any means. But I'm really excited to share theatre with him as he grows up.

STEPHEN: He could be a Paper Mill kid, he could win the Jimmy Awards if your district does that…

SARA: Oh my God, I dreamt…they do. Our public high school that Hunter will go to has an excellent theatre department, Stephen, you know, I looked it up when we moved. I was very curious. They value both sports and also obviously academics, but they really do value the arts, which was important to me in moving to the district.

STEPHEN: Oh, absolutely. I think some theatres have really come up with creative ways to wiggle themselves into like, schools to make the budget work and like fill in gaps. And that's like a huge theatre ed component and they…you know, when things get kind of restricted with like district budgets, finding ways to still fit the arts in. So I'm glad that theatres do that, but also that there is a good arts program there where it’ll be easy.

SARA: Yeah, me too. I will say the New York City Arts and Ed Roundtable, Steven has been so phenomenal in their advocacy for arts being included in the city council budget this year, in New York City specifically. And it has really inspired me for TYA/USA to be a stronger national advocate for the arts. I mean, we endorsed and promoted like the STAGE Act, which is currently what's happening in legislation, but I would love for us to be more active. It's why I included that advocacy question in our member survey.

STEPHEN: Oh, yeah!

SARA: Because I want everyone's ideas!

STEPHEN: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Well, Sara, we can wrap up if you…unless you have anything else you would like to add?

SARA: This has been so great, Stephen, I'm so honored that you asked me. I'm such a huge fan of the podcast. This has been so fun.

STEPHEN: Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on and telling us all about what's been going on with you and how you got here today.

SARA: It’s my pleasure.

STEPHEN: How can our listeners find out what you're up to?

SARA: Our listeners can go to the TYA/USA social media. We follow everything that's happening there. I believe our…my favorite of the social medias is @tyausa1965 on Instagram.

STEPHEN: The TYA/USA website and social media pages are linked in the notes for this episode. Follow the TYA/USA team on these platforms to learn about exciting opportunities in the field and other ways to connect with with the international community of theatre for young audiences makers. Our network is growing, and we would love for you to join us! Whether you are touring a show via minivan or caravan, a presenting house, university, independent artist, regional theatre, or you’re just TYA curious, there is a place for you at our table. You can reach out to the TYA/USA team at info@tyausa.org to start a conversation with Membership and Communications Associate Stephen Fala, Executive Director Sara Morgulis, or Programming Manager Rachel Lee. This week’s Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party music is “Animal Heart” from Diary of a Wimpy Kid, The Musical, Book by Kevin Del Aguila, Music and Lyrics Michael Mahler and Alan Schmuckler, Based on the Diary of a Wimpy Kid Book Series by Jeff Kinney and the 20th Century Fox Films.

[Pipe and Drape theme plays.]

Are you interested in sharing your pipe and drape story? You can join the conversation by emailing PipeAndDrapeStories@gmail.com or messaging @PipeAndDrapeStories Instagram. And everyone, please be sure to rate and review Pipe and Drape wherever you listen to podcasts! Each star given or review submitted helps future listeners find the show. Tune in every other Tuesday to hear theatre for young audiences creatives share their pipe and drape stories. Pipe and Drape is created and hosted by Stephen Fala and distributed by Spotify for Podcasters. The Pipe and Drape logo was created by Stephen Gordon and music was composed by Stephen Fala. Thank you for listening with me today.

More about TYA/USA:

WEBSITE: https://www.tyausa.org/

INSTAGRAM: @tyausa1965

FACEBOOK: TYAUSA

We’d love you to check out:

This TYA Today article: Most Produced TYA Plays and Artists of the 2023-2024 Season

The LEAD Conference

https://actionplay.org/

This week’s Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party music: “Animal Heart” from Diary of a Wimpy Kid, The Musical

Listen to the Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party playlist here!

Connect with Pipe and Drape:

INSTAGRAM: @PipeAndDrapeStories