JON ROYAL: Thank you, Stephen. Thank you very much.
STEPHEN: Thank you for sitting down with me to tell me all about this new work that you are doing with our good friend Idris Goodwin, who adapted the piece from India Hill Brown's book, which I'm so excited about because a lot of reasons, but like, something that really struck me was the target audience, the age range for this. Usually when people think about TYA, they're thinking it's for like really little kids, but the theater is inviting…they’re saying like, families and children ages ten to twelve to come watch. And I feel like that's something that we don't hear too much about, like shows specifically for that middle school audience. And I think it's so, so vital at that age. Middle school is a lot, and you're experiencing a lot of new feelings and new things, and I’m not saying that your innocence is gone or anything, but you're starting to realize certain things about the adult world that maybe were hidden from you or, you know, you're outside on your scooter riding around, and you're just seeing more of the world on your own. So I'm really, really excited that this piece is happening, and I'm excited to hear about your experience all the pre-production that's going into it. And then your plans on working with this cast. You recently just completed like a workshop with some of your cast members. How, how was that working with this group of people?
JON: It was great. It was great. I really like being in First Stage. I enjoy being in Milwaukee. But I mean, you know, you're nervous because you've never…I mean, it's a group of people who've never been in the same room together in this way. And, you know, I have some particular ways of working and some things that I value that are important to me as far as people getting a chance to really know each other and to take that time. And sometimes in the theatre process, it's kind of like, well, everybody's gonna ha just gonna have to trust and jump in. And yeah, there is a measure of that. But we took some time to really engage in some exploratory I now, I won't say getting to know you, but this idea of we did a form theatre activity that I enjoy doing called animal communication, where we have four different animals on the wall. There's a hawk, a rabbit, a turtle and a tiger. And then we go through and we talk about, well, if these were communication styles, how would you, if somebody said that they communicated like a hawk, how would you describe how that person communicates? Or if somebody communicates like a tiger, you know? And it's all about association, about what people are bringing in the door. So even that is letting people know how they view certain things. And so they got into it and they were able to really…it’s just a gateway to being able to share some things, too. If you're sharing different pieces of yourself, that's intimacy in, in a way. And so it's people being able to acknowledge people who might think think, believe, or walk through the world in similar ways as them, or to see what a contrast to the way that they think, believe and walk through the world is like. And so, yeah, that was, it was dope. I mean, it was dope. They totally went in. I feel like by the end of the first day, the youth that were gathered felt a sense that they could share things in the room. I mean, and hopefully that'll grow and deepen as…I mean, this is even before our first, our first day of official day of rehearsal. So I'm hoping that that grows and deepens as we, you know, move through. And then the next day, with a whole lot of sharing and movement and space with bodies we're gonna…I’m really interested in using fabric for like adverse conditions and to, to display different things. And we work with that, but also we have a shadow ensemble that's gonna be creating environments. The way that Idris writes is really good, but at the same time, it's like scene/scene/scene/scene. And so I need people to be able to, I need to be able to seamlessly shift through throughout those environments in a minimalistic way, but yet a way that like, really still grounds us in the story of who these spirits these spirits are. And so yeah they dove in. I felt like it was…I had a great experience. I'm hoping they had a great experience. I wish there was more time, but I always wish there was more time. And so yeah, it was exciting. I had a good time. I thought it was exciting, and I thought that there was a lot of really good work that happened.
STEPHEN: This piece, while it's ooky spooky in the sense that there's ghosts and it's being put up in October, there's also like a dark historical element of it. It's about the segregated cemetery. Was there a lot of talk of dramaturgy?
JON: Nah, okay. Nah, not, not this time around. We didn't really get into the piece in that way. We didn't work with the text a whole lot. This was just about bodies in space. And also this idea of people being able to be in the same room, to be able to just actors, human beings in a space, being able to trust each other and to work, to develop an awareness of each other in a large space. So, no, that'll be more for when we jump into the piece. I want to say next…it’s coming…it’s next week. This time tomorrow I will be driving to Milwaukee from Nashville.
STEPHEN: How’s that drive?
JON: Oh, it's not bad. It's it's mostly…I mean, I go through Kentucky and then I go mostly through Indiana. I bypass a lot of Chicago traffic. And then, you know, I'm in Wisconsin, it's like maybe fifteen minutes shy of nine hours. It's not bad. It's kind of cool. So I visit places like Terre Haute places I had never been through until I started making this drive. This'll be the…and I don't drive every time, but I think it's like the fifth time within the last year that I'll be in Milwaukee, 'cause I really wanted to to go and then, like, we've had workshops, but also there was a mini conference that the theatre hosted last November. And I want to know as much about where I'm gonna be, the community, where I'm gonna be as much as possible. And so it's just…sometimes it's hard to learn those kinds of things when you're visiting.
STEPHEN: The group that you're working with, is it mostly youth performers or is it youth and adult actors?
JON: At First Stage it's a, it's a mix of youth and adult actors. The way their model is they're young, they're youth that are cast and they cast age appropriate or, I like to say age-approximate, that’s just my own term casting. Whereas if they're young people, they're gonna be played by young people. So all of these youth are school age school age youth mostly middle and high school. And because it's about middle schoolers, this play is about middle schoolers. And then there are adult actors who play the adult some of the adult roles, some of the parents teachers. There's a grandmother who, in this play, without giving too much of it away, there's a grandmother who, who plays a very pivotal role in it. And so those are all adult actors, but they were not a part of bootcamp yet. We'll meld, kind of meld the ensembles together in that way once we get started and get going.
STEPHEN: When you were of that age, were you enrolled in a theatre program or were you doing some other sort of youth activity over the summer or after school to engage with other people your age?
JON: I was not [Laughter.] full stop. I was not it was very interesting. I mean, you know, I was not. I did school plays, but I wasn't, outside of that, I was not very active. I mean I didn't go to a school that had a theatre program until I went to college. I mean, I had friends that I hung out with. I played sports I played basketball in middle and not very well, but I played basketball in middle and high school. And then I ran track in high school and college. So I did forensics. I did a lot of public speaking. But yeah, it was my introduction into like understanding what ensembles were like and things like that. That didn't happen until I was in my late twenties/my late teens-early twenties. That was it was, it was beautiful. It was very difficult at times in a rev in a very much of a revelation just to understand. So, yeah, no, I was not engaging. I wish, but I was outside of sports, I was not engaging in high-ensemble activities. I played in the band. No, no, I, I played in band in middle school. No, nevermind. I did. Oh, oh boy. But this is a very different, being able to do the mirror activity with twenty other people simultaneously is a whole lot, is a little different is than playing clarinet in from fifth to eighth grade. But yeah, I did, I guess, I did, thinking back, I did do activities like this, and like I said, the reason I say no is because I feel like these young folks have such…if I think about where I was at that age, are so far ahead of being able to, even just being able to identify feelings and to be able to share things, and to be able to be comfortable in places or to be able to work through discomfort or to even identify, ‘Hey, I'm uncomfortable. Here's why.’ That just wasn't a thing that I possessed when I was twelve, thirteen, fourteen. That just wasn't a thing. I also was a camp counselor. I started working with young people when I was fourteen. And so it wasn't, so being able to lead a group and to be able to be in charge of a group and to be re to be responsible to a group and have to listen, have to listen in a way that I needed to communicate things to other people that's always been something that I've done. But nothing like, nothing like the activities that they're diving into until, like I said, until I was in college.
STEPHEN: Why do you think it is that kids now, it's easier for them to identify how they're feeling and communicate things to adults?
JON: I don't. I think…I don't know. Well, I have some theories, but I don't know that it's necessarily easy. It's just easier.
STEPHEN: Okay.
JON: I think expectations are different in lots of good ways. I was thinking about this the other day because so much of, when I was younger, I was raised by a generation of people who their parents expected them to be little adults. And that was not the expectation of my generation, but it wasn't far off. And, and now I think that there's, just, as we've progressed as human beings in this American culture, we are in a place where we recognize, oh, this young, these young people are young people. There are people, but there are young people in as much as there are certain things, there's certain decisions they should just not be making. [Laughter.] So there's certain decisions that they can't make yet, but there are a lot of things that they can…there are a lot of decisions that they can make. So what is my job as an adult? My job as an adult is to help be able to guide them to be a sounding board, and also to be responsible and to keep them relatively safe while they're able to figure out what it is to what it is to have discernment, what it is to, to develop boundaries for themself and things like that. I still think as a culture, we have a long way to go. But I think that it's important that I think that those messages have gotten down to where these youth, and especially when I work with college youth/college age youth and upper, upper teens, they have so much, particularly in theatrical settings, have a much more…I was talking to a friend of mine who was a professor the other day, and she's like, ‘You know, I sometimes, it really is challenging, but I love the fact that they're they're able to set boundaries and state boundaries in a way that I know that we weren’t. I still have trouble doing it today myself.’ I think, like I said, I think the expectations are different and as those expectations have, are different and have changed, I mean, there's just more empathy. There's more empathy within certain settings. There are settings that I go into where that's not the case. I also work with youth in circumstances where they have been in nothing but distrustful circumstances. So when an adult is there and they are actually genuinely wanna understand and hear their perspective on a thing, they're super skeptical. And so yeah, I don't think that across the board. I think that class has a lot to do with it. I think that where you are as far as your relation to poverty and resources has a lot to do with it. I also work with youth in the carceral system who are like totally…I mean, the idea of jumping into a thing, that's a thing. You're gonna have to work and you're gonna have to build, and you're gonna have to keep showing up week after week or however long it is that you're working with youth for them to buy in. You know what I'm saying? Or not even buy in. It's not…it’s not about a buy-in. It's about trust for them to be able to trust and to be vulnerable, the kind of vulnerability that it takes to build a piece. And some youth wanna do it, and some youth, it's, you know, it's different per, per young person.
STEPHEN: So you do a lot of work in LA where you're working with kids to adapt Shakespeare for the stage, and it's very much process-based. I'm curious about that, 'cause the other week in the office, you were…so for those listening, Jon stopped by the TYA/USA office a few weeks ago, and so, and I heard about this program out in LA and I was fascinated with it because again, it's doing, it's like an adaptation process and it's activities, and it's bringing people together and it's a project for people to focus on. Between that and working with kids, is there a difference in your process as far as what you're doing to, to get that end result as far as how you devise and work?
JON: I’m so happy you asked that. My answer, my blanket answer is no. I'm doing the same thing with everybody, and also the same, the same thing with variation, depending on the ages and consideration as far as that's concerned. But I will say this about Willpower to Youth, the program that you're talking about, that is a youth employment program. So those youth are paid, those youth are paid over a seven week period. So it is a job. We’re there there Monday through Friday, six hours a day, and they are paid to engage in not only an art-making process, but also a community-building and a dialogue process. So we're trying to do a lot of different things all at the same time. So youth employment, job readiness is part of that. Also art making also engaging in a community dialogue process. And then also, it's also a quarter, I would say, academic because they're working with a playwright, they'll probably, usually 99% of them are going to experience in their school setting in, in some way. So I say 99% because I can't be sure of a hundred. But I would say that, you know, as far as I know that most of the young people…most of the high schoolers who come through that program have had interaction with Shakespeare or are going to have interaction with Shakespeare in their classroom. So it's also academic to a certain degree, but it's all four of those things simultaneously. And we are trying to, and youth can speak to this more than I think that sometimes even the adult can, but we work together. So I'm not their teacher. We're coworkers in a space. So in the same way when we are in a performance space, we are collaborating together. So there's give there's a lot of give, there's a lot of listening, there's a lot of adjusting and balance and, you know, understanding how to listen with each other. And that's every…I wanted that, I mean, you know, when I learned, when I started learning that when I was eighteen/nineteen years old as an actor, the biggest part of my job is listening. And surprise, surprise—it’s something I can apply to being a human being, who knew? But it's this idea of just being an intentional listener. And so no matter what age group you're working with, no matter what the setting is, it's really about this idea of listening and this idea of awareness and this idea and willpower to youth. We talk about the idea that we're committed to each other and the work and I am, once I encountered the way that art was made in that program, it changed who I was not only as a professional, but as a person. And so it's this idea, and I'm not saying that I always get it right or whatever the heck that means, but this idea that I'm trying to build spaces no matter where we are, no matter how much people are getting paid, no matter what, of people that are committed to each other and the work. And that's sometimes tough, and sometimes that's counter to what our world is asking. But I think that not only does it make for better storytelling and better art, I think that that's actually why we show up. We're there to participate in community, whether we know it or not. This is just a way of being very intentional about it.
STEPHEN: You were talking earlier about your work with like government officials and like creating safe spaces and equitable communities. Is it more difficult to get an adult to think creatively or openly throughout these workshops and exercises?
JON: I’m shaking my head. Yes. I think so. In my experience, the answer is yes. And this is one of my very favorite stories. One of my professors that I really enjoy working with in college who taught a stage movement class, and I took a stage movement class. I dug the stage movement class. I really, really enjoyed it. I remember, I can think back now, it was an experience of being able to be within my body, but to be in an ensemble with other people and to really just kind of go for some things and kinda let go of some inhibitions in a way that I wasn't trying to watch myself and perform at the same time. I'm just trying to take care of myself and whoever I'm on stage with, and we're all mutually trying to take care of each other as we're doing these interesting movement things. And so I went to, I went to that next summer. I wanted to try these with a group of young people that I was working with, and I was working with three different ages. I was working with younger, younger youth who were like, I wanna say like four years old to seven years old. And then I was working with a group of young people that were eight to twelve. And then I was working with a group of teenagers who were mostly all fifteen, sixteen, seventeen. And I remember doing this with the eight to eight to twelve year olds. And they were like digging it. They were loving it. They're jumping off and they're doing stuff, and they're like really getting into these amorphous kind of things with like, very little instruction. And they're just like, oh, yeah, you know, they're making these weird noises and doing these different shapes of their bodies. They're doing all sorts of things. And then my teenagers were a lot more reserved. And I think at this point, I was only twenty-two myself. And I went and I saw him, I saw my teacher after that experience, I said, ‘Hey, man.’ I said, ‘Boy, like I had a great time. Thank you so much for like, introducing me to these things.' I said, ‘Man, it was like I couldn't wait to try it out with my teenagers, and they seemed to really struggle with it. Bu let me tell you, man, the younger group after them, especially the ten year olds, they really ate it up. They dug it.’ He said, he looked at me, he said, ‘Jon, when we're in class, all I'm trying to get is for people to remember what it's like to be ten again.’ That's what he said to me. And I was like…my mind was blown at that point. I was like, ‘Oh, yeah.’ Because I think about the idea of how I was just running around as a ten year old, and like, there's different things going on in your life, but it's a deal where yeah, there's certain things you don't know. There's certain things that…there’s certain kind of body chemistry awareness that you don't have that leads for you to jump first into certain things in a way that really provides for some compelling stuff. Also, if you are an adult, kinda like what you said, they've been hardened because the world…we’re taught to compete with each other in so many different ways. And especially if it’s…so I went in that particular…what you were talking about. I went in the first night with them, and I had my first session after dinner with them. And it's all people who work in equity spaces. So these are government employees who work in these cities and municipalities. Usually they're a team of one, you know what I'm saying? And they have this vision of how to build a more equitable future for a municipality, but sometimes they don't have the resources and tools to make it work, or people who can collaborate in a vision of what an equitable future can look like. And they have to be the person to say, ‘Actually, we can't do this this way anymore because this excludes these people,’ or, ‘We can't do this this way because this language is very, very harmful to people.’ We have to, and their job is just to convince, convince, convince, and sometimes with varying success. So I walk into this room and they, on a piece of paper, they see “Theatre;” they have all kinds of different concepts in their head. They think they're gonna be singing and dancing. And I'm like, 'Hey, we're just gonna be sharing space. We're gonna be doing a lot of listening, and we're gonna be and we're going to be using elements of our lives to tell stories,’ that there, again, it's all there in spaces sometimes where being vulnerable is a real risk. You know what I'm saying? And so yeah, it's difficult. It's more difficult, but it's all about trying to break down those pieces and like getting people to participate in things and let go of an amount of self-awareness, because you can't, that was one of the biggest things that I learned as a late teen/as a late teenager and a early twenties actor, you can't watch yourself and be on stage at the same time. You just can't do it. That’s not the way it works. So you're going to have to trust these people that you're on stage with. You're gonna have to trust the work that you're doing. You're gonna have to work if you're in a process where you're working with the director, you're gonna have to trust that director to be able to, and you can't, you can't be in here thinking about…and you know, so much of…I feel like adult lives are about that. It is about, ‘Ooh, I better pay attention to this when I'm in the office,’ or I mean…you know what I'm saying? There's not a network of people that you can trust that are thinking collaboratively in that way. I think they can though. I think there's lots of space to do that, but yeah. So it's tougher. It's always tougher. I always talk about this. I have a colleague that I work with and we work with we work with youth, and we talk about it. And like, so youth will come in and they'll be talking about something that their parents did or something that, or they'll meet something that a parent has done that it's affecting their participation in a way. And we'll look at each other. We'll kind of look at each other and we'll say to ourselves, ‘Man, grownups ruined everything,’ like that. But it's not grownups’ fault. We inherited this world. You know what I'm saying? We've inherited all these lessons from our parents and from the people in our lives who have passed this world down to us. And so so sometimes, yeah, adults come into spaces very, very guarded for good reasons, for good reasons, you know? So it's about trying to get them to be aware of if you are guarded. I do what a lot of…I say things like, ‘If you're breathing, make sure you're breathing.’ And that sounds really like weird, 'cause of course I'm breathing if I'm alive, but sometimes we walk into spaces and don't breathe for long stretches of time and aren't aware of it. And I'm like, ‘Hey, if you're not breathing, just check in with yourself. Why not?’ You know what I'm saying? It might be the first time that they've been asked by another adult to check in on whether they're breathing or not.
STEPHEN: I feel like I definitely need that sometimes. And I too, as a performer, am always trying to remember what it's like to be ten and that bravery…that you're not really aware of when you're creating or just having a conversation. So sometimes like when I'm blessed to be working with youth performers, I'm like, ‘Oh, right. It's like this, this is a different world for them.’ And maybe I need to go do that for a second. I think doing a lot of TYA as a performer has helped me tap into that, but as my career has shifted, it’s a struggle to remember. It's like, ‘Oh, I’m, [Laughter.] I'm playing an adult, but now I need to still have that kid mentality.’ And like your next cast, the age range is so wide in that. What is your directing approach to creating a new show? You have living writers, what is your building block for for the next couple of weeks of rehearsal to get this piece up on its feet?
JON: We want to create a multi-generational space where everyone feels like they're heard and seen, straight up. That has got to be the first, because if it's just, ‘Oh, well, the adults in the room are talking and here's what it is,’ then the work will go nowhere. India and then Idris has created a real window into these relationships with these young people. It's told from their eyes, it's told from their perspective. And we really have to honor that. And we have to honor that by…I do things that, I mean during the bootcamp process, we build norms. We check in. We we find a way to hold space for each other, no matter what is being said. We create the container that we're choosing to interact in, and we try to hold each other accountable for it. And I think that that's one of my biggest jobs as a director, is by modeling that and also being a person to hold accountable, but also to recognize and ask the questions that I need to ask, even while we're just being humans in the space. So it's not a deal where like we, when we rehearse, we do this, and then when we're not rehearsing, we don't do a thing. Now we're creating a space where we're working together and we're diving into this activity. And it doesn't have to be everything that we're doing in rehearsal doesn't have to just stay in rehearsal, especially if it's about recognizing someone's humanity, especially if it's about communicating, especially if it's about approaching with an open mind. So you know, it's, in typical theatrical fashion, in my experience, all of that has to happen relatively quickly. But if we really make use of the time, and I, that's the other thing about just being an artist with Willpower to Youth has taught me over the time, over, over these sixteen years is it fifteen years? Somewhere like fifteen/sixteen years, taking the time to actually do that might not be typical for a professional process, but it surely is valuable. It's very valuable. And so then, so as I've gotten older and as I've gotten a little more bold to be able to do that and to kind of shake off, to shake off the idea, ‘Oh, it feels like therapy,’ or, ‘Oh, it feels like it's just us relating to each other as human beings,’ and really being super there again, just about being super intentional about it. So I think that the approach is to be super intentional about things we take for granted. So we're not leading with assumptions. We're actually leading from a place of curiosity, hopefully, and understanding what that is. And that's, that's what I wanna do in every single room. It's, I, I think it's vital when it doesn't happen. I feel like that's why the room feels really tense and like abrasive and painful. And when it does happen, it's a place where people actually wanna come into. There's a freedom that exists in that space that may not exist in other portions of their life, that they might be able to get like specific, like real aid in being able to… ‘Oh, I want to take these things into my life about the who I am outside of this rehearsal process.' I'm really hoping that that can happen every time. I really think that that's, that's important. And it's just, I wanna say this too, and I really have been back and forth with the idea, the language about this…and I think that some people, when you say this, it's off-putting to them: but I, as far as like, “safe space,” I cannot guarantee everybody's safety. And what I mean by that is I'm hoping that people are empowered and I want them to be safe. I just can’t, I cannot, I cannot, when people talk about "it's a safe space,” I want a courageous space, yo, I really want a courageous space where people can actually feel like I can mess up here and learn a thing and still be accepted and valued for it, or I don't have to pretend like I know a thing that I, if I don't know a thing I think that sometimes that just really puts us in real…I think we learn all the wrong lessons from just faking it sometimes. So to be able to, and sometimes that's really, really difficult especially if you come into a space that you think is safe, and then somebody does something that you think, oh, that looks exactly like what people do in harmful spaces that I'm in. It's because it probably is, but this is the place where we actually can talk about that. We can actually have a conversation about it. We can actually really, and I mean it sounds…it can sound like happy talk and I'm not…I understand it's difficult. I've seen it not be, you know…things not be resolved, but at least we want to try to have those important conversations. And so that's what I hope to do. It's not always easy. Sometimes I'm not totally satisfied with how the results work out, but I learned from a facilitator his name if anybody is listening from Chicago and knows Chicago ROAR or has had a crossroads training, his name is Derek Dawson. He said, the important thing is that we try, it doesn't mean that it's gonna work every time, but it's important to try every time. And I'm like, okay, I can try. I can do it.
STEPHEN: That’s so important because I know I have a big fear of failure or disappointing other people or doing the wrong thing. But if I'm not trying at all, there's no way I'm not gonna learn anything. And so it's important to be able to say, ‘I don't know,’ or ‘I am sorry.’ And that is what goes into a courageous space. And so I think that is so, so valuable for anyone that's involved in one of your productions to feel that they are walking away with having that experience. Maybe it's the first time being in a space where they can feel free to, to mess up or have the hard conversations. And a lot of times I'm in shows with very quick rehearsal processes where there's no time for discussion. There's no…I don't get to speak to my ensemble members until tech rehearsal because we are so rigid with our schedule and our timing and so I felt like we're not even working as an ensemble because I don't get to know who I'm sharing the stage with. And it's so important to build a community in that room so you can go and serve the community that's that's watching the piece. And so is this your first time working with the Milwaukee community?
JON: It is. It is. It is. Okay. And that's another reason why it's been important for me to go there as much as I have, I can't get enough. I can't learn enough. I can't, you know what I'm saying? I can't make up for the, the forty plus years that I've lived somewhere else, you know what I'm saying? And so it's like for me, like, you know, I wish, I wish I knew, I wish I knew a lot more than I did. And so that's where it comes in with me to trust. Jeff Frank has been there forever. He is Wisconsinite-born artistic director. He and their new their new Associate Artistic Director Michelle [LoRicco], who she just got there, but they have a sense of what that community is that I'm working with. And so I'm trusting them and also trying to learn as much as I can. So yeah, it's my first time. I'm really looking forward to it. I will say this though. I will say this, yes, it's a “yes, and” so it's not a “though” or a “but,” but I think..not “but” oh I just said it. Oh, man. [Laughter.] It's very interesting. Yo, like, I'll straight up and even me Idris talk about this somewhat, y'all. I am so much, and I did not know this until I started living and working other places and spending large amounts of time outside, but I'm such a southerner. Like I am such a southerner. And what that means is I have such an appreciation for what has happened in this region, in this particular, in the southeast, what has happened in this particular region. Also the a level of organizing and just out and out fight that it is taken for this not to be this backwards, stereotypical place that a lot of people, I feel like. So there’s not a lot of people that…some people that I encounter describe it as I have a lot of value here, and I know that there's a lot of value in southern stories. So India, she is from South Carolina. This story takes place in North Carolina. It is a southern story. And just about everybody I'm working with on this piece is from the Midwest. It's just nuts. It's, it's nuts. And so I'm like, ‘Hey, so what about this and that, and this and that?’ And so I just think it's an interesting situation. It's not challenging. There's so much that, you know, communicates per region. But I definitely think that the way that, just because I've lived here, the way that we talk about ghosts here and the way that we are talking about segregated graveyards and school desegregation and all of these kind, these tensions and struggles that are a part of every region of the US actually, but just embody themselves in different ways in the Southeast. It's interesting and I think that it's very in the story that India has gifted us with. And so I wanna make sure that all of that is very pronounced. And so that's why I definitely see that as part, as a big part of my role as who I am and where I've come from.
STEPHEN: Were you part of the adaptation process, or is that gonna be your work as you are in rehearsal, giving your input as far as like, being from the South?
JON: Honestly, I feel like I've been a part of this adaptation process. Idris is is such a generous collaborator. And this is the third show of his that I'm directing. Yeah, this is the third show of his. And the first one, I didn't have any, I just took the script as is went for it, boom. And then with Ghost when he adapted Jason Reynolds’ Ghost, we got a chance to workshop that. And we got a chance to work together on that. And there again, he's super generous. So this process, I feel like I've been even more, I've been a part of every revision of the script as it's gone on and just been in a place. So I feel like I've totally had a lot of involvement with this adaptation from a directorial perspective. And it's a new…I love a new play. I know I love a new Black story. I love [Laughter.] I love Black stories, and I love a new, a new Black story. So this is what this is. You know what I'm saying? And it's great [Laughter.] It’s really, really good. I hope India sees it and I hope she digs it. I know that she and Idris have reached each other, reached out to each other via social media, and I'm hoping that there's a formal ask that…and she gets a chance to actually see what her story looks like in a different medium ‘cause what she has crafted is beautiful and special.
STEPHEN: I don't wanna like spoil anything for anyone listening, but I'm so curious about how you're going to bring these ghosts to life on stage. What your ideas are as far as staging or voices or the way the language might be different between each of the characters? I don't know if you're able to reveal that or not.
JON: I’m happy to talk about it. It's the one thing I'm gonna learn about in the rehearsal process. But I will say this, I don't want to play at a horror aspect. I want, here's the thing about ghosts, and I don't know I've had this conversation with some members of the production team. I don't know if you believe in or don't believe in ghosts. I think that for me, myself, I'll say I definitely do. And I feel like when I'm on the fence about it, I feel like in my life, I have to acknowledge that there's some things that me as a human being that I just can't explain. You know what I'm saying? That things happen that I can't explain. So there's that. All right, there's that. And the second thing about that, when I think about there's one ghost in the story there's one ghost that we interact with, and we get a chance to learn their story. This is, and I have an interview tomorrow about they're asking me about my approach to the show. And it's like that this is…the idea for me I talk with the production team and the designers and other collaborators about is the fact that this is a person, no matter what their state is, this is an individual who really, really wants to be known. And so if I sit there and I think about what that's looked like in my life about what, what has it been like to be known or to be noticed or to want, I mean, but it's not even just to be noticed. It's really just to be known. And that's tough. So what do you, what links do you go to share, or what links do you get go to to get close to a person so you can share things. And I think that's more powerful. And at times, if I, especially, I think about the extreme of that, scarier than anything that we could do with like lights and like other, although I love like the…I’m technician myself and I love the aspects of the elements that we have to tell a story. But that when I sit there and think about that, that there's this person who never rests and all they want is for somebody to really know them, that gets me, that really, really, really gets me. And it justifies why this person does, why this individual would do certain things, or why that they would go to an extreme if they, you know…the idea that they will never rest until somebody actually knows and acknowledges them, that is to me is very powerful and very frightening. [Laughter.] It's very, very frightening. So anything that might happen in the waking world, and they're like working overtime in whatever kind of plane of existence that they are, and they're trying to make sure I know them or acknowledge them, that's that's pretty…that lets me know that they don't recognize boundaries. People who don't recognize boundaries are frightening within themselves. That is true as like a very southern story that is being told in the Midwest.
STEPHEN: Are there certain elements of the setting that require exposition for a different audience to understand? Okay.
JON: Nah. And I don't think so. That's stuff for me to know and for hopefully the…no, I mean, at the end of the day, it just has to be people, t has to be human beings interacting in the space. But they, what they're talking about is specific, is very specific. Like I said, all of these things happen everywhere. Segregation happens everywhere. Bigotry happens everywhere. You know, those kinds of things happen all over the place. It's about what does it look like in a particular place. And what they're talking about specifically looks a very specific way in the south. They, because just not to give too much of the story away, there's a lot of, not necessarily flashbacks, but they talk about history. They talk about history from fifty years prior and how, why it's important to understand for the time that they're experiencing that our characters that we are following, that we are hopefully rooting for and supporting are going through. They go on their own journey to understand that history so they can make sense of what's happening to them in the present. And we gotta do it too as audience members. So yeah, I don't think necessarily that, I mean, there's nothing particularly outwardly…I just think that creatively it's important to understand that, to have an idea of, oh boy, yes, my grandmother experienced this kind of thing. Oh yeah, my grandfather experienced this kind of thing. I think that's important.
STEPHEN: What are some things that you're hoping the audience members are taking away, and what are some things you're hoping that your cast and creative team are taking away from this experience?
JON: Not to get into specific details of the story, but there are, there is a in, in talking about this idea of knowing someone, we experience these relationships in this story where someone is doubting as to whether their best friend knows them at all. And actually the impetus for the entire story hinges around an argument that two best friends have. And so I just, I'm hoping that it's this idea of, of intentionally, I don't know, I'm not saying making up with people, but understanding that even in when we have conflict with somebody, or even when we're hurt by somebody else, if it's someone we have relation that we're in relationship with, that we can still see those other pieces of them as well. I think that's important, but also just taking a chance to notice and to understand other people around us. I think that's important. If those two things get taken away, I'll be beyond happy if those two things get taken away from audience, cast, crew, whoever, whoever it is. So yeah.
STEPHEN: Jon, thank you for speaking with me today. How can our listeners find out more about your upcoming projects?
JON: I am on Instagram. I think I'm @jon.royal.003. I think that's my Insta. I'm also on LinkedIn as myself and those...until I get this website finished that I've been trying to finish for a minute in January, and that's, that's the drop dead deadline. I don't mean to use that language, but that is the goal. The goal is that by January it'll be up and running and you can see images from this show and other shows have worked on and, and all that, and reach out. But yeah, I'm available. I respond via social media if you…I think that social media is a really good thing in our world or can be, can totally be a good thing in our world if we use it responsibly. So yes.
STEPHEN: Jon’s Instagram handle and ticketing information for the world premier production of The Forgotten Girl at first stage are linked to the show notes. This week's Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party music is “Put You in Your Place” from the original cast recording of The Lightning Thief: The Percy Jackson Musical book by Joe Tracz, music and Lyrics by Rob Rokicki, adapted from the book The Lightning Thief by Rick Riordan.
[Pipe and Drape theme plays.]
Are you interested in sharing your pipe and drape story? You can join the conversation by emailing PipeAndDrapeStories@gmail.com or messaging @PipeAndDrapeStories Instagram. And everyone, please be sure to rate and review Pipe and Drape wherever you listen to podcasts! Each star given or review submitted helps future listeners find the show. Be sure to tune in every other Tuesday to hear theatre for young audiences creatives share their pipe and drape stories. Pipe and Drape is created and hosted by Stephen Fala and distributed by Anchor. The Pipe and Drape logo was created by Stephen Gordon and music was composed by Stephen Fala. Thank you for listening with me today.
Find Jon Royal:
INSTAGRAM: @jon.royal.003
LinkedIn: Jon Royal
See Jon Royal's production of The Forgotten Girl at First Stage, fall 2023: https://www.firststage.org/events-tickets/2023-24-season/the-forgotten-girl/
Listen to the Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party playlist here!
EMAIL: PipeAndDrapeStories@gmail.com
Host: Stephen Fala
Artwork: Stephen Gordon
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