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STEPHEN FALA: I’m Stephen Fala, and you’re listening to Pipe and Drape, the only podcast that spotlights the creative minds behind the Theatre For Young Audiences industry. Every two weeks I sit down with a theatre professional to hear their pipe and drape stories. These are the stories that take place behind the pipe and drape scenery in the theatre for young audiences world. Theatre for young audiences (or TYA) inspires young minds by entertaining audiences with topics big and little in any and every setting. My guests have mounted shows small enough to fit in a minivan to productions so big they travel by caravan, and on this podcast we discuss the ways theatre for young audiences helps all artists and theatregoers make this world a better place. Thank you for listening with me today.
STEPHEN: Hi everyone! I’m talking with actor Robert Hooghkirk who has traveled all over the country and seas bringing theatre to children and families in every style. Robert appeared Off Broadway in The Golden Girls Musical Parody: Pride Edition and A Christmas Carol (at The Players Theatre). He’s performed in the Mainstage company aboard the Disney Magic, at Winnipesaukee Playhouse, and toured with TheaterWorksUSA, Lexington Children’s Theatre (which is where we met!), and Chamber Theatre of Boston which is the pipe and drape story he is sharing today. Robert, welcome.
ROBERT HOOGKIRK: Hello. Thanks for having me.
STEPHEN: Thank you for chatting with me today. Catching up. We met like eight years ago,
ROBERT: 2015. That's right. Yeah,
STEPHEN: Yeah. You were in and out of Lexington. I think we, like our, our schedules were kind of opposite, where like, I was downtown and then you were all over the state.
ROBERT: We were all over the state of Kentucky because I was in the two rep touring show for LCT. We were doing Old Dry Fry and a two person version of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe playing half of Narnia. And you were Where the Red Fern Grows on the main stage, the time. So I think I was always up at like five o'clock in the morning, you know, to get in the sprinter to drive to all the other sides of Kentucky. And then I would come back and you guys would be asleep already, you know, it was two ships passing in the night. Yeah, I remember Mike.
STEPHEN: So you roomed with my fellow castmate and last season finale Michael McClain. And so like, you would be up and out before he was even conscious. And then we would go, both do our separate things. I saw your cast perform Old Dry Fry when he came back to the theatre and then missed your adventures in Narnia, but that's been a huge hit, and like they've brought that back several times.
ROBERT: Correct. They brought it back several times. When I had done it in 2015, it had gone up maybe once or twice prior to that time. I had come back and done a small stint after the season had closed, and then Lexington had brought me back for another show. And at the time, the artistic director had an idea. I was very close with a fellow actress named Emily, who I met doing Chamber Theatre, which we'll talk about in a little bit. But when I was working on Elephant before I was working on Elephant and Picky at LCT, Vivian had this great idea to do a thirteenth show and would we mind remounting The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe? So I was part of it, not once, but twice at LCT Tours and they've done it, I think one or two more times after that. So it's definitely a popular title.
STEPHEN: It’s so magical and so warm and wintry, I think you can't, you can't not love it. And so I understand them bringing it back also. Thirteen, I forget, LCT does a million shows a year. They really pack them in.
ROBERT: They pack it in from community productions, professional productions, boring productions, theatre for the very young, you know, and their main stage, which is a big staple for them, is the summer family musical. And on top of that, they produce the gala with their local Kentucky celebrities. And that is like a week—so quick, it just happens in the blink of an eye with newscasters and, you know, miss Kentucky and a chocolate shop owner, you know [Laughter.] And it's like they all come out, but it's incredible the programming that they do.
STEPHEN: They are that city, like they're in the heart of town.
ROBERT: Absolutely. They're one of the number ones that as far arts are concerned, that are servicing central Kentucky and the parameters that surround them. And they've expanded a little bit and they go now touching a little bit in Ohio. And I think they've had actually when I was on tour last fall in November, I was with Spamilton and there was in the Cultural Arts Center in South Carolina, there was a poster for an LCT show that was coming. So they're going into the Carolinas for a drop, you know, so their reach is very wide now.
STEPHEN: Do you remember getting programming like that when you were a kid in school?
ROBERT: So my, I grew up on Long Island and it's interesting looking back. I'm in Nassau County and in Suffolk County there is a very large community theatre presence, I think much larger than Nassau County has. So I came into it much later in life. But as far as my area was concerned, in elementary school, we were taken to the high school musical that happened. And we of course had a school assemblies and they ranged from, I think one was about the ocean. And I just remember this one woman and she had a sea backdrop and she had a hand puppet that was an octopus, but her fingers were all the tentacles. I vividly remember that you know, we definitely had assemblies on anti-bullying and we had those assemblies about, you know, why drugs are bad. So definitely those things. And in third grade, I believe at the time, so this is in the early mid nineties, we were taken to Hofstra University and we saw Babar, you know, by TheaterWorksUSA, 'cause I believe that was a title many moons ago. But I was exposed to TYA and theatre from my school, but also my mother grew up in the city and theatre was part of her life, so she also brought that to me. So from a very young age, I was enrolled in theater classes. There was a place on Long Island in Limrick called Fantasy Playhouse, which is no more, but I would always go yeah, you remember Fantasy Playhouse, that's no more that I would go to all the time. I did their summer camp. And then when I wasn't doing that, my mother took me in to see theatre in New York. Actually, one of the very first memories of professional theatre in New York that I saw was a show called, and this is the late eighties, so we're looking at ’89, ’90, maybe ’91, there was a group called the Famous People Players, and they are still in operation today, and they are based in Toronto, and they are a black light puppet spectacle. And the other thing is that they worked with actors who both were hearing and non-hearing actors. So it was a community bridging the gap, full fledged production that worked with giant puppets, black light and storytelling. And I just remember this weeping, I don't know, call him Father Time or something, but it was this massive, giant puppet that they were manipulating to this whimsical music. And they've only, they've only done two shows in New York, and like I said, late 80s, but still operate today. They have a beautiful space. It also operates as a dinner theater as well. Still going strong, but that's like the first like, very profound theatrical experience as a young person,
STEPHEN: Black light puppetry is something that I've not seen actually, so maybe I'm gonna have to go to Toronto now, but we love Toronto.
ROBERT: Of course we love Toronto. You know, you can spend a night at the Rosemont and catch a show [Laughter.] But it really is lovely. If you YouTube them, I mean, one of their most, I can't think of that title off the top of my head, but one of their like breakthrough ones was Liberace in Insert the Last, it's a country, you know, you know, it's Liberace in blank, fill in the blank, but it's one of them. And it's a person with a sculpted face of Liberace. There's a piano and there's candelabras and they're dancing while he's playing. It's one of their big ones.
STEPHEN: I want that. I want dancing candlesticks [Laughter.]
ROBERT: Of course
STEPHEN: But not just in “Be Out Guest.” I want it all the time.
ROBERT: All the time, all the time.
STEPHEN: And so you had this opportunity to see all this theatre as a kid. And then went into a career performing for children and families everywhere, like on boats, out of vans, out of…are you going to space next?
ROBERT: I, you know what, I haven't learned, I haven't learned how to be an astronaut, you know, but I'm actually really excited because when I was in high school, I was petrified to drive. And so it was a struggle, it was a struggle for me to get my learners' permit, for me to get in the vehicle to drive. Like my aunt tried my dad drive, and my dad drove a van. My aunt drove a sedan, you know, and my mother doesn't drive. So I was always like, ‘Well, I'll just be like my mom,’ and my dad and my aunt were just like, 'But you, you should have a little bit of an independence.’ So they like really pushed me, but both of them would get so frustrated and I would have lessons and then I would do the lessons at the school, and it was just a thing, but I eventually did it and I got it. And who knew that that would be a skill that would be so important when you are touring? 'Cause you are driving. I’ve driven vans, I've driven sedans, I've driven the SUVs. And I've also driven a twenty-six-foot two-axle boxcar truck, which is my time at Chamber Theatre. So who knew that, who knew that this little boy who was scared to drive would drive one of those big rider trucks around the United States? And it's because of Chamber that I drove that big vehicle and now I'm just like, whatever, you know, I'll drive, I'll drive, whatever. It doesn't phase me anymore [Laughter.]
STEPHEN: Did they take you to like some truck driving school in the outskirts of Boston to teach you how to drive it?
ROBERT: So technically you don't need a special license for that. But I did have to go and get a special card. They had to do certain tests that I had good peripheral vision that I could hear that my reflexes were quick enough. So I did have that. And my first tour with Chamber, I had not yet, we had not yet all experienced the truck. And since I was nervous, I was with my master electrician on the tour at Daniel, and he was like, ‘All right, we're gonna do about like four hours down to Florida. And it's just like a straight line.’ He's like, ‘So why don't you do it? You don't have to get off an exit, you don't have to do anything. We just need to drive for four hours in a straight line.' So I said okay. So we got out switch spots and I just drove, you know, and I was like, oh, I like being up high. I like having this vision, this scope, and it's not so bad. And the thing that they do is they put a governor on the, the truck. So I couldn't go higher than sixty miles if I was lucky. And stay in the right lane, stay in the middle lane. And because you're a little bit bigger, other cars get out of your way. So [Laughter.] if you are, but you know, it's you know, just make a larger right hand turn, you have the scope on the left, but make a larger right hand turn and just there's more. You are a little bit longer, so just make sure you have clearance and just watch for low bridges and tree branches. But I definitely have a different perspective when I drive now and I think of route and I was like, 'Oh, I couldn't drive this way to get to the Chamber place because [Laughter.] the truck won't fit.’
STEPHEN: Was that a big thing, like planning out the route to make sure the truck could fit on the route? Or are there warning signs on the road where you have enough time to like reroute?
ROBERT: So this was in 2010, and I guess we all had our smartphones well I didn't have a smartphone at the time, but I don't think we were super into the Google Maps, Apple Maps, having our cell phones be this device that it is now. So it was a lot of Google Maps and MapQuest and we had a big atlas, which is from the truck station and they have everything highlighted for your route. And you're also looking at a book that is provided by the company from previous tours who have played spaces. And the tracking of the tour is kind of in the same vein. Most often, if you're on the interstates, you're gonna be fine. You can't go on a parkway. Those are tiny and the bridges are low. So you could, but I will tell you the scariest is Washington, D.C. because we played George Washington University, so we are in the heart of D.C. and there are roads that are just blocked off. You cannot go down. There are low bridges. And so I remember in the Atlas they have this, this magnified version of D.C. with orange lines and I was with someone in the truck navigating and I was like, you can't turn left. You can't turn left. Okay, you have to turn right now, left. We have to go another five blocks and there's the interstate. You know, so, but it was just, you know, and in that place, if you make a wrong term, like people are gonna stop you and question why you're there. So it is a little unnerving, but and the same with truck stops. You do have to obey you. I had a log that I have to fill out, you know, and keep a log of all my driving activity on a truck log and go to the weigh stations on the interstate. So you do have to follow all those rules as well.
STEPHEN: I’ve never been to a weigh station. What happens there?
ROBERT: So essentially they can happen several different ways. We don't have the technology that the truck drivers who do it for a living do with the headsets. And you know, they can communicate with the actual way station. If the way station is open, you go. Some of them are more clever and have like several signs when you're on the highway and there's like weight plates along that lane. So you could get flagged to come and stop at the way station or they can just move you right through and just keep you going. But like I said, we don't have that. So we always went to the weigh station, we would pull in and someone would either look at us and say, go and sit and wait until we talk to you. That only happened once in my time. And the rest of the times it's just like, just go because we're not carrying very heavy. I mean, we are carrying very heavy stuff, but not enough that they're gonna really question it. I was only questioned once they asked for the logbooks, they asked for my little card and we're told to say “theatrical props,” that's what we're carrying. 'Cause we're in the Chamber and we have, you know, the logo on the door and stuff. And they're just like, ‘I don't, I don't understand.' And I was like, ‘Theatrical props. So we do theatre and there are costumes and scent pieces and you know, props.’ And they're like, ‘Okay.' And I'm just like, ‘Yep, we're just a, we're theatre, make believe imagination playful things.’ And they're like, ‘Oh, okay, I guess you can go.’ And that, that was it. But you know, it's it can be a little nerve wracking, you know, just in case. I remember when I toured with that instance, the person who was with me was quite nervous. [Laughter.] I said, it'll be fine. They'll let us go. We have nothing. We have nothing to hide unless they wanna see a giant headless horseman puppet, in which case we'll open the truck [Laughter.]
STEPHEN: A show At the weigh station.
ROBERT: Yeah, exactly. We would be ready, we would be ready. We have all the materials needed.
STEPHEN: Was your company traveling with multiple vehicles or just the truck?
ROBERT: They are two vehicles. You are in that big truck, which two people drive in and then the rest go in, I guess like at the airports, those fifteen passenger vans. And that has the rest of the company and the the luggage. So Chamber operates with two vehicles and they are a company of eight individuals. It is five actors, one additional actor who serves as understudy, house manager and sound tech. And then you have a stage manager who also functions a little bit like the company manager on the road who is the intermediary between the pouring company and the office back in Boston. And then the final piece of the puzzle is a master electrician who also functions as the ASM.
STEPHEN: Were you traveling with like a truss of lights ready to set up?
ROBERT: Yes. So I will say my experience from Chamber is slightly different from where they are now. Because the creative director at hand is making some wonderful adjustments and changes and also really bringing the company into, now you know where we are in 2023. So we traveled with a full deck. It had a full proscenium, full curtains, it had a full built-in deck and therefore we traveled with a cyc, we traveled with psych lights and there were two booms on either stage right and stage left. And it was, if memory serves me correct, somewhere between forty-eight and fifty-some odd lighting instruments that would be set up. We also traveled with a case of ten front of house lights, which you used sparingly. If the venue was not equipped for that, most often you are at your palaces, your Sangers, your Fabulous Foxes. That's where you're performing, your traditional touring roadhouse that you might have in your state or city. But if we were in those gymnacafetoriums or schools that want the show but they don't have everything, we have all of the makeup for that. But it and it's a full set of road cases, building the proscenium. And the interesting thing about ENCORE!!, it's what's known amongst the roadhouses 'cause you work with some professional union members at the theater they call Encore the Door Show because each short story that is in the piece is a different door. So there is this spider web door for Telltale Heart. There's a big gate for the grave or Sleepy Hollow. There is saloon doors for jumping frogs. So they're always just like, oh, the doors are back. You know, it's always a good day when the doors come through. There's a space in Macon, Georgia and there is a particular member of the crew who always just is so happy when we come. 'Cause he would just get in the truck and he'd look and he goes, ‘That's the monkey paw door. We're seeing the monkey paw show.’ You know, so it's, it's always great. It has its identifier, [Laughter.] and the show that I've done, ENCORE!! is one of the, I wanna say it's one of the smaller ones. There is a larger proscenium set built for a show they did called Classics! which has the…their identifier is the rocks 'cause they do The Most Dangerous Game and The Ransom of Red Chief. And there are these giant rock units that get moved around. And during Most Dangerous Game, Rainsford and Zaroff are climbing on the proscenium. So it's a very big and very sturdy structure. These shows are not small. I can say there are a lot of working parts.
STEPHEN: How long would you take to load in, load out and also, how long were you in each venue typically?
ROBERT: Each each day we were in a different venue. It was very rare if we got two days at space. So it was always, like I said, nine times outta ten, we were at a union house/touring roadhouse and they started eight. So it was always the truck had to be there at 8:00AM we would back into the loading dock. And you have some people who drag their feet and there are some guys that have a giant clock at their loading gate that the minute it goes eight, that door is rolling up and they're there with their gloves ready to take the stuff. So if we had a really good crew start up at eight, and I would say from eight, and when you're on the road and keep doing it, you get faster. So to put up all the lighting instruments to build the deck, to raise the proscenium arch, to set all the props, to get the dressing room set. 'Cause like I said, five actors and there are six short stories in each piece in ENCORE!!. And everyone has a role. So that's five costumes a piece, you know, plus the props plus this. And plus all the, the set pieces that change and doing everything. I could get everything set up. 'Cause you, you each have a job to do. So it's not we're all doing lights, we're all doing…someone’s doing lights, someone's doing the set, someone is working with the electrician, you know, laying the cable, someone is doing the sound. You could do it from 8:00 to about 9:30, 9:45 and be released. And then I would have about forty-five minutes to prep 'cause show started at 10:30, typically, and then the show runs about an hour forty-five. And then you bow you get out a costume, you take it all down and pack it all up and put it in the truck. And ideally we could have the truck door closing at 1:00PM you know, so, and that would be, and that would be it. We'd go, we'd have lunch, we'd have a little meeting if we need to do it. We'd check in with the office and we would drive another three hours, four hours. And then you would go to the next hotel check in. You would say, this is the venue. Who is driving the truck? Who is driving the van? Do the venue run. We'd have another little check-in. Okay, it's gonna only take us ten minutes to get there. So we're gonna leave at 7:40 tomorrow morning just in case 'cause It's a tricky, you know, loading dock or it's very now, so we're gonna build in five extra minutes, you know, so, and you just, you know, repeat the cycle. So it was a very it found, its, its repetitions, you know, of the day-to-day action. And that would happen, you know, they start with the, with the school year in September. And so the several tours that I've done, I mean, I have done them back to back, but you know, September to December, you know, covering territory as high as New Hampshire, Vermont, you know, going all the way out into Kentucky even farther. And going all the way as south as Miami in Florida. So you are covering, and at the time this is not just one company, they did have like three companies of ENCORE!!going out. So there were people covering more like the Midwest or the South or the Northeast some crisscrossing, you know, just based on operational need. But the large territories are covered. And it is an everyday thing, a Monday through Friday thing, new space, new people, always a different space, so you're constantly adjusting, you constantly have to adjust. What I will say, even though you constantly have to adjust the way chamber works is because they are so insular to their set and their lighting, you are blocked to that set. So even though we might have less depth or whatever playing in front of the proscenium if needed, the actions are still the same. The lighting is still set to that set. So you are hyper-focused. So it does not take, you know you don't have to sit there and, and harp on something, you know, for and, and belabor it. You just know, oh yes, the door is going to open. I'll do, I'll hug the wall of the curtain and all I have to do is just hang tight around this edge this time. And that's really the only adjustments you might have to be aware of, you know, very little is cut. If at all.
STEPHEN: What were some of your specific duties on both of your contracts with them that were part of that load in/load out/traveling process?
ROBERT: So I I did five tours with Chamber Theatre. Most often I was on the electrics crew. So you're split up two people work with the electrician and someone worked stage right, someone work stage left. I have worked both sides stage right and stage left, setting up all the instruments, setting up the psych lights, helping set up the cyc if we need it. Most often the theater provided us the psych so we didn't have to take ours out of the bag. So that was very helpful. So it is getting the spacing of the booms, putting the boom together, getting the order of the instruments, and they make it foolproof. They have a red/blue system and they have them numbered. So each boom has, you know, going 1, 1A, 2, 3, 4, and you just match the colors and the numbers. So, you know, it is simple to follow. But the electrician and his person he's working with from the crew will go in and help with the focus and stuff. I was just responsible for making sure cable was run, DMX was run, things were take down and neat. And all the lights and the gels were where they need to be. Now I know, I think they've switched to LEDs. So they've done away with the gels and the interchanging. So now they have these LED units that are really, really nice and pretty. And they also add they have like an endless supply of color palette and more vibrancy. So I've seen some of the new production photos of the recent company that's gone out. And I mean, I always liked the way we look, but now I'm like, wow, how vibrant the tour looks now. And they've also worked with a projectionist illustrator animator. And so now they're adding projections to it. So during Telltale Heart there is this giant heart that beats in the back. They have this big moon facade for Sleepy Hollow. I know they have a shadowy projection figure of the Headless Horseman. Now, when I was doing it, it was this giant two-pronged puppet that went on someone's shoulders. But they have done away with it. But I think it still has the effect 'cause people seem to love it still. So I'm told [Laughter.] for that show.
STEPHEN: What was the age range you were serving? 'Cause some of these titles are kind of adulty.
ROBERT: Yes, so I would say that, I would say that Chamber Theatre is at its heart chamber theatre. I'll give you just a tiny little history if I may. Chamber Theatre was founded by a man named Robert Breen, who was a professor at Northwestern University. And he has a seminal text Chamber Theatre, which was published in 1947. And basically what you are doing, it's, you are adapting literary works fiction or non-fiction to the stage using the maximum amount of text possible from the original source material. Additionally, what you do is you try to keep the presence of the narrator in the piece as opposed to what we see as a more traditional sense where we eliminate the narrator. So with that in mind Chamber Theatre pulls from 19th century classic literature, primarily. When the company was founded over forty-six years ago, they initially started because the artistic director is a a fan of Edgar Allen Poe. A lot of the work did focus on Edgar Allen Poe, and many of the shows that they have done have incorporated text from Poe, The Black Cat and The Cask of Amontillado, the Fall of the House of Usher and currently ENCORE!!, which serves The Raven and the Telltale Heart. So with that, you are looking at an age range, who are sixth graders, seventh graders, eighth graders, you know, that's your typical scope of, of young people. Sometimes they skew a little younger, sometimes they skew a little older. But then again, Classics!, which is another title, had more in-depth material. The Lady, or the Tiger?, the Most Dangerous Game, Usher again. And that would be more for high school. But they have done a large scope that you do read either in middle or high school.
STEPHEN: And then you had Eureka!
ROBERT: Yes.
STEPHEN: Was that for a younger audience? Since it was very science math-based.
ROBERT: It is, it is math-based. Yet again, the target audience, it could go as young as maybe as fourth is fourth and fifth grade. But sixth and seventh, I think eighth grade. Also, it would probably be beneficial to an eighth grader as like a refresher, you know, but it's not necessarily maybe introducing very brand new concepts, or it might, as an eighth grader provide the more insight into the the figures that helped move mathematics along Eureka! The interesting and fun part about Eureka! is it works with a full projection system of math equations. And it is traditionally about a little girl who hates math, can't get it right, and it's a little bit a la It's a Wonderful Life where Pythagoras is like, ‘Oh no, Einstein, we have to help her.’ ‘Okay, I'll go down and help her.’ So Einstein comes down, you know, appears to her and is just like, ‘I'm gonna help you with your math.’ And she's like, ‘No, I don’t…No, I don't wanna.’ And he's like, ‘Oh, I'm gonna show you that math can be fun.’ And like with a couple of snaps and his magic chalk, this world comes alive and he introduces Pascal and Lady Lovelace and Fibonacci and Pythagoras. But at the same time, the projection that's being used, all the math is being displayed above you. We travel with this giant screen incorporated into the proscenium. And so when you're doing, please excuse my dear aunt Sally PEMDAS in order from left to right, in order to match the projection, I had to learn everything right to left on stage because the projection is above my head. I was Einstein talking the math concept, and with my magic chalk, I'm pointing and gesturing. So I had to learn everything backwards in order to do it for an audience. [Laughter.]
STEPHEN: How was it revisiting, revisiting literature, revisiting math and science? Was this like exciting? Were you like, ‘Oh God, I'm back in school?’ Were you taking away new things that you had never covered before?
ROBERT: I think what I, as far as the math goes, I was a little nervous just because math works out. So, and if you have, you know, some like short circuit moment and you're like you have to take a breath because if you can do the math, you know, and calmly you can get the right answer if you're struggling trying to search for the word on the page. Spoiler alert, I at one point wanted to be a math teacher before I became an actor. I, and when I took AP Calculus, that sort of crushed my dreams, but [Laughter.] I was like, ‘I don't know if I can do this.’ But I had more fun doing math and theater at the same time with more concepts that I could grasp. So I wasn't as nervous, but it was certainly fun. And with Encore like I said, the, the scope of the classic literature that they have done for over forty-six years, there are titles that I never read in school that they have done. But then learning about those, like, I've never heard of Mark Twain's, The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County, you know, but what a fun little seven-minute diddy, you know, it's full of energy, pizazz. And I got to play a frog. I had this, these giant, you know, hands and feet and a little green baseball cap, you know, and I got to be a frog for seven minutes. So how fun is that? But you think back and you say, ‘Oh, I know The Telltale Heart. Well, how are you gonna do it on stage?’ And surprisingly you can, and it has an impact. I know my my boyfriend when I keep talking about this, and he was like, ‘Wait, Telltale Heart…a frog. I saw this in Michigan in middle school.’ He's like, ‘And in The Telltale Heart, and there's a bed.’ And I was like, ‘Mm-hmm, there’s a bed, there's a giant bed.’ And he is like, ‘And there's this giant cleaver.’ And I was like, 'Yep, the cleaver's still there,’ you know? So it's, it is refreshing because not only does it pair with the curriculum at the school system, but it has a high theatrical impact that people remember to this day, you know? So it's kind of cool thinking about how do you bring this text to life, you know, in a theatrical manner, you know? So it's been great fun exploring both math concepts and literature for the stage.
STEPHEN: I love that, like for you it was the Famous People Players blacklight moment that stuck with you and then for your boyfriend it's all these things that happened with Poe in the same production that you ended up touring, and it's really cool to hear about like the longevity of a production because…I mean like, you got Phantom and Cats, but also these other shows that don't have like a famous Broadway recording. They're just something that has been traveling the country for so long. What was it like jumping into for the first time learning this material and, and staging for production that has been around for some time?
ROBERT: So it's wonderful. I was…the artistic director doesn't really direct anymore, but I had the great fortune to work with the artistic director Dr. Patricia h Sankus. And she is one of the disciples of the people from the people who were taught by Robert Breen you know, and developed the scope of Chamber Theatre. And a lot of the adaptations, especially the Poe are her’s. So she's one of the larger adapters and directors of the material. And so when I first joined the company we had a four to five week rehearsal process which has been truncated now, but for the first go around, I think at that time they had not done ENCORE!! in a few years. So because at that time they were starting to develop Eureka! So they were putting out the math show a lot, and I think schools were like, we need the literature-based version. So I think they gave us a little more extra time for them to find their feet back into the classic lit world. And also they were adding The Raven for the first time, so we needed more time to build it. But it was about four weeks you were arrive, you get your scripts and they have the idea of who you're going to play. You don't get offered. Like, even though in my mind I knew I was going in to play, Ichabod Crane, it was not solidified yet until the first day of rehearsal. So after a table read, it's like, okay, your tracking is Old Man, Ichabod, Factory Man in Monkey’s Paw, Necklace narrator, Frog, you know? So then you start working the day-to-day piece by piece for each short story, you do them out of order. But as we were once told, you know, the show has been around for a long time, so the blocking is set, it's set to the lights, it's set to the space, it's set to the stage, and they know how it works. So you are essentially having to take that moment and saying, I am Ichabod Crane. However, it is just like me saying, I am Ben Crawford in Phantom of the Opera. He's not you know, he's not Michael Crawford, the original who discovered everything about the Phantom. He's Ben Crawford who's doing it and will be the last Phantom closing in the next two weeks. The Phantom is still going to, you know, go right, left out, Christine collapse, get, you know, it's still those motions. It's still, 'I will at the very end go to the chair and pull the cloth over me and disappear.’ I'm not gonna walk off stage. Right. You know, or it's, but at the end of “Defying Gravity,” all things considered, I'm gonna go up in the air. You know, the, these things happen. There are, I don't wanna say there are rules to be followed, but the blocking is set and, you know very well from our time on the Disney Magic, you know you are working from a blocking book essentially. I will say you are given the crayons, but you stay inside the lines. However, I get to use red, yellow, and green. And you might use blue, eggplant, and lavender. So you do have the tools and the framework, but you are allowed to invest in the character's journey, you know? And I think having done ENCORE!! over five-hundred times that's the way you keep the moment to moment fresh and you try to really dig. I mean, I've played Ichabod, I've played the Frog, but one of my, and they're fabulous characters, but in The Monkey's Paw, I played the Factory Man, and it's very, it's a very small part, but I don't know why I had the most fun playing the factory man with a character that functions in a story who delivers very unfortunate news, you know? But finding the ways to just make it so delicious, you know, for myself, that's the journey of it. You know? So you work in those weeks and then you learn how to put the show up, you know, after you've had costume fittings, after you've learned the blocking for each piece, how to track all the pieces. 'Cause it's who's moving a door out? Who's bringing off the bed? Who is, who is now going to bring out the stove? Or where do these things happen? You know, where do I need to put costume pieces? 'Cause I'm leaving as a necklace narrator, but the next story is frog, and based on that exit, where do my frog feet need to go? You know, where do so I can wear them and be the frog in the next thing? So it's finding all those things out and then learning how to put the stage together, the proscenium, how to, how to pour essentially, and then doing it, you know? So really learning all of that. And on top of that, learning the lines, learning the blocking, learning these things you know, five, five and ten times over. And then doing it. And then by the time I get to my fifth tour where I was an emergency replacement, I came in five days before they hit the road. I was an emergency replacement. And I was like, it hasn't changed. You know, maybe something this or that, because it's new people, there's a little thing here or there, but I know it's like, oh, I'm gonna be old, man. I'm gonna be let out. I'm gonna change into Ichabod. I'm gonna take the scene break. I'll be Factory Man. You know, it's like, I knew exactly what to do, you know? And it's helpful because the tour is going out, auditions are happening for Chamber Theatre, and when the actors come the creative director's in the room auditioning and working, and she just says to them, she's like, ‘I want you to take a minute and look over this material. Go talk to Robert, you know, and, and so go talk to him, he’ll tell you.’ And it's me just saying, I love that you're finding these new things and you should be finding these things, but I'm gonna offer a suggestion on this part, this part, and this part because I know the story and I know how it functions, so I know what they're looking for, you know? So just think about these things. You don't have to, you know, but these are more tools in your back should you need them. So like I said, going back, you know, from my fifth tour with them, I knew exactly what to do [Laughter.]
STEPHEN: That’s so great that you have been a part of the casting process and been able to be present and walk people through this because they don't have…there’s like not a bunch of bootlegs out there of this material where like…auditioning for Disney for callbacks, I was like, ‘I don't know what this show is.’ And luckily someone put it on the internet. I was like, ‘I know that there's a way that these shows work,’ that’s so helpful that they have you there to guide…and they’re walking into the room and like seeing right away like, ‘Okay, this person like can take direction,’ and they have you to prove like what that other meeting was like with them before.
ROBERT: It was a traditionally they, they happen differently now, but back in the day when I was doing it, it was “what I learned from Suzuki.” It was the acid test, you know, that can you take these things because we just need to know that you're gonna be able to do it. And it's also, it's a very specific style, you know, it was, and what Chamber is now is more theatrical than what Chamber is. It's, you know, maybe just a couple of props, a couple of this, that and the other thing. You're wearing a black turtleneck in your black pants and focusing on the literature and the text, right? But this is now more of a theatricalize representation. And to your point about having the internet and having like a recording and something as a compass to guide you, I would say that Chamber is celebrating forty-six years strong. And we all, as a nation worked through the pandemic and the pandemic, as other institutions succumb to, did not survive. And Chamber was possibly going to follow in that direction. However, they worked really, really hard and they now can offer virtual productions. What they have done is, initially they did what they called The Midnight Collection of Poe. And it's a brief video, but it is filmed versions and not like what we see on like, great performances on PBS like South Pacific or The Light in the Piazza, something like that. They are more cinematic in nature, but they had several of the Poe pieces, Telltale Heart, Annabel Lee, The Bells, and then they went further and they brought in more actors, and they have now recorded each of the stories that exist in ENCORE!! and Classics! So teachers now have the option, if they can't take them to a space to go see, they can utilize now Chamber's virtual option. And they have two, they have ongoing Classics! and they have like a straight through version where you can watch it for an hour-forty and just watch story, story, story story. Or they have the educational version, which is after each story there's commentary from the artistic director. There's study guides, there are educational materials but they are cinematic representations of each of those short stories that you would see live on stage. Still slightly a little theatrical, but they are now recorded for posterity and also for educational use, you know, for any of the students.
STEPHEN: That’s really neat that they were able to create that and now have that for schools. In your time touring, were you interacting with the school? Like, were you doing talk backs? Were doing workshops with the students regarding the material?
ROBERT: So I wish that there were the case, but because of the nature of the schedule there was just very limited time. I will say the closest we would get would be those times when we were at schools. If we were in a school there, there was one school in Florida that had every bell and whistle you could imagine. It was like, ‘Come and look at our fog machine, come and look at our liftgate.’ And I was like, whoa, I wish my high school had this. You know, or not. And we had…the crew was a bunch of eighth graders because the drama teacher said, ‘They need help. And period three is when they're coming and you're here for period three, so you're gonna learn students what it takes to put on the show.’ So having those moments of having, you know, you know, insert Timmy, you know, helping me together lights, you know, of course Timmy doesn't climb the ladder. I'll climb the ladder, but you can hand me the lights and you can hand me, you know, this gel or that gel or you can help me uncoil the cable and things like that. So that was interesting to get that facet. And that was every so often. But that was the closest we had from what would be like an educational aspect with a student.
STEPHEN: That’s really cool. Whenever shows came to my school, it would just appear and disappear, and no one knew how it was done.
ROBERT: It’s like, who are the weird people, you know, that are walking around the school, you know,[Laughter.] But it just magically happens. But it is, and I've done the tours, not Chamber but those two-person-van-everything-is-carried-in-a-duffle-bag-the-traditional-pipe-and-drape where I have loaded in during gym. I've had to load in during gym, you know, and they're just like, what is this? I don't know. And then they come back maybe an hour later and they're just like, whoa, what, what is this? You know? It like blows their mind. [Laughter.]
STEPHEN: Oh God, you're bringing back so many memories. I totally forgot about that. They're doing stuff with balls on one side of the gym and you're there with your duffle. I'm like, ‘Oh God, don't, don't come over he’re not done yet!’
ROBERT: ‘Don't, don’t, don't touch. No, you can't do it.' I must have had so many gym classes. They had indoor soccer and you know, when you do some tours that were more two person shows with companies that I've worked with, you are arguing with that gym teacher, and it's like, ‘I know you have a job to do and I have a job to do. And the principal has decided that this is where it's happening, both of our jobs, so we need to work something out,’ you know? And I've had some, some faculty members say, absolutely not. You'll have to wait. And I have been fortunate to have a principal who's like, ‘Okay, well I can hold it an extra half hour if you, you need the time.’ And I was like, great, thank you. And I've had some who are like, ‘No, you will not.’ And the principal is like, ‘You have to be ready to go in five minutes’. And I was like, ‘Okay, well then just so you know, this is what it is and this is why,’ [Laughter.] and the struggle is real. But you know, I’ve had the best of the best and the worst of the worst with experiences.
STEPHEN: What are some of the things that you did as you were, were traveling to stay grounded?
ROBERT: It’s very great when you're on the tour and you're in Florida and you get overnighted for the weekend in Orlando, so you can go and visit a couple of places in Orlando, you know. So that's always very nice. But if you're not fortunate to do that, I was always a person that wherever the hotel was, wherever the van was, if it was a…depending on the drive or how close things were…we were always near stuff when we put our bags down. I always tried to find if I could, I tried to find the independent coffee house, but if not, it was either Dunkin’ Donuts or Starbucks. And I would go and literally I was like, ‘I'm gonna be at the Starbucks. I'm gonna be there for an hour and a half. I have my journal. If you need me that's where I am.’ So that was always like my time to get away. But there were several things we were in. I remember going to a spy bar. It was like a speakeasy type of thing, and we had to do some ridiculous dance and say some weird cryptic things. And all of a sudden a book case opened, and then we were in this underground bar that had spy paraphernalia from movies, and it was cool. And they sent drinks via the, the tube, and it got poured at your table. I wanna say that might've been either Wisconsin or I don't know, maybe Minnesota. I don't know one of those states. But I'm a glutton for punishment, and I think back on an actress that I just absolutely adore the late Marian Seldes who always said, ‘You know, I don't know what I would do if I couldn't go to the theatre to have the theatre. What else could I do? I love it so much.’ So I would try and find the theatre that was happening. So I remember seeing Frank Galati as Prosper in The Tempest at Steppenwolf. I remember, and Frank Galati just recently passed, who is one of the students of Robert Breen. And Frank Galati's most famous chamber style show that he directed was The Grapes of Wrath for Steppenwolf. That also was on Broadway in ’91. One of my most favorite theatrical moments that I was so happy…Chamber, it was Chamber, Chamber brought me to El Dorado, Arkansas, and it was around Halloween, and we were at the local Halloween fair, and they had the Mutt Strut where the dogs were dressed up, and they had the, the young people dressed up for costume competitions. And there they had a theater production of The Woman in Black, in an old vaudeville house starring a fifth generation person from El Dorado, who his father's father, his father's, father's, father's father… And he went out to LA and he booked work, and he was an actor there, but he came back to do this production. And it is one of another aha moments in the theatre that I had, you know watching something else. So my relaxation is more theatre, unfortunately, sometimes. [Laughter.]
STEPHEN: But that's so…’cause like Woman in Black is another spooky story being told on stage. Did some of that inform the way you thought about doing your Poe stories?
ROBERT: You know what, I think the idea, even though it's not traditionally like a chamber piece, but the genre and the style and theatricality, because, we don't wanna spoil it for our listeners about The Woman in Black if you don't know the surprise, but so much of it is dependent on theatricality or environment, right? It is quite a jump scare. But also because that story functions with the idea of a person who is telling the story and also a person that is also functioning in the story. I'm telling the story, I'm in the story, and here's someone else who is just moving us along and just, we're playing all the parts that we need to play, which is ideally what a chamber piece is, having a narrator be internal and external, so it is not only dark and spooky, like some of the material we learn, it also has the same vibe staging wise, theatrically and a great play. Also, [Laughter.] if I might add, if you haven't, find a production and see it. I was so mad when I couldn't go to the McKittrick in 2020, you know, I missed out on it. I think it's important to know Chamber Theatre still exists. Chamber Theatre is important. I also think it is one of the only companies that is different from many of the other ones that are out. You know, and I'm not saying that to put a competitive vibe, it is just one of the things that is different. I think both Chamber Theatre looking at, you know, Poe is just as integral as TheaterWorks’ production of Charlotte's Web, or my time doing James and The Giant Peach or Lily's Purple Plastic Purse, or even an ArtsPower tour, or National Theater for Children doing energy conservation, it's it's just a different beast, you know? It is, to me, it is one of the more unique versions out there, you know, and that's why I think I love it so much and respect it so much, and why I have stayed attached to it so much, you know? Yeah. But I, I used to say back in the day and still to this day, if there was a TYA touring company or a TYA component that existed at some theatre, chances are I have auditioned for it. I've worked for them. I've been at a call like, I, you name it, I probably have been there or I have been in contact with a representative from the office at some point. It was something that I didn't know I loved until I did it, you know, TYA. Just like those actors that you look at and you go, ‘Oh my God, to hear them recite Ophelia or to hear them recite Rosalyn, is just exquisite or to do Phaedra,’ just like, ‘Oh, I'm so happy that I'm doing this small fifty-five-minute show and packing everything in with the fiber of my being.’ I didn't know I could love it as much as I do, you know, theater for young people. It was just something that I felt good at, that I felt comfortable in and felt like you're making a difference, you know? 'Cause as we stated earlier, some people's most profound memories are from those school assemblies or field trips where they see live theatre.
STEPHEN: Robert, thank you for speaking with me today. How can our listeners see what you're up to online? Oh yeah, my pleasure. I seem to be most active on Instagram, which is just @robert.hooghkirk. And you can find me there. I do have a Twitter, but I don't really use it. So Instagram's the best. That's the, that's the way to do it. You can see Robert on stage at Winnepesaukee Playhouse this summer and fall in Sweeney Todd, running August 31st through September 9th and Corduroy running October 20th through 29th. Ticket information is linked in the show notes. This week’s Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party music is “I Can Be Anything” from the Freckleface Strawberry The Musical original cast recording. Music and lyrics by Gary Kupper, book by Gary Kupper and Rose Caiola, based on the books written by Julianne Moore and illustrated by LeUyen Pham, conceived for the stage by Rose Caiola
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Are you interested in sharing your pipe and drape story? You can join the conversation by emailing PipeAndDrapeStories@gmail.com or messaging @PipeAndDrapeStories Instagram. And everyone, please be sure to rate and review Pipe and Drape wherever you listen to podcasts! Each star given or review submitted helps future listeners find the show. Be sure to tune in every other Tuesday to hear theatre for young audiences creatives share their pipe and drape stories. Pipe and Drape is created and hosted by Stephen Fala and distributed by Anchor. The Pipe and Drape logo was created by Stephen Gordon and music was composed by Stephen Fala. Thank you for listening with me today.
INSTAGRAM: @robert.hooghkirk
See Robert in Sweeney Todd August 30-September 9, 2023 at Winnepesaukee Playhouse: https://app.arts-people.com/index.php?show=154040
See Robert in Corduroy October 20-29, 2023 at Winnepesaukee Playhouse: https://app.arts-people.com/index.php?show=154029
Learn more about the virtual programming from Chamber Theatre: https://www.chambertheatre.com/encore-virtual
Read about Robert Breen and his introduction of chamber theatre style: https://findingaids.library.northwestern.edu/agents/people/1031
This week’s Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party music: “I Can Be Anything” from Freckleface Strawberry The Musical
Listen to the Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party playlist here!
INSTAGRAM: @PipeAndDrapeStories
EMAIL: PipeAndDrapeStories@gmail.com
Host: Stephen Fala
Artwork: Stephen Gordon
ROBERT: You learned about the c-wrench in college in your lighting practicum, and then it's like, ‘Oh, here I am now five tours later. The only tool I'll ever need is a c-wrench. You know? It's like, you know, it never left my side. [Laughter.]
