STEPHEN: Hi everybody I’m catching up with actor, director, stage manager, Disney-grammer Ali Caiazzo. Ali has traveled the world with Cirque du Soleil and Nickelodeon’s PAW Patrol, Live! “Race to the Rescue,” and her performance as Rocky has been immortalized on Paramount Plus. Her rendition of the song “Musical Theatre Boys” went viral during the surge of song-specific musical theatre riff compilation videos on YouTube, and I am counting the days until she is cast as the lead in a Taylor Swift musical. Ali and I grew up performing children’s theatre at Upper Darby Summer Stage in Delaware County, Pennsylvania, and for over a decade Ali has returned to the summer theatre program to direct and stage manage their shows including How I Became a Pirate, Spookley the Square Pumpkin, Rugrats, and The SpongeBob Musical. Ali, welcome.
ALI CAIAZZO: [Laughter.] Hi. Hi. That was an amazing intro. Wow, thank you. The YouTube video part was really unexpected. I forgot that that even happened to me.
STEPHEN: I think about it every day. [Laughter.]
ALI: That was really incredible. Hi.
STEPHEN: Ali and I met at Summer Stage doing…Cinderella was our first show together?
ALI: Mm-Hmm.
STEPHEN: Where you were singing about a lovely night and I learned how to waltz. Was Summer Stage (either like attending it, like watching it, being in it) was that your first theatre experience?
ALI: No. So I only ever did theatre because my best friend Jenna Rogaliski danced and sang in elementary school and in middle school. And I remember they announced over like the morning announcements over the speaker that the auditions were that week for the school musical. And I vividly (like core memory) remember saying, “I'll do tech.” I don't know why. I remember turning to whoever my desk partner was and being like, 'I'm gonna do tech for that.’ I don't know. But then Jenna said she was gonna audition and I, at that point in my life, probably just did whatever Jenna did like at any given time. I also thought I could draw at that time ‘cause Jenna could like, [Laughter.] anything Jenna did, I could do, I couldn't. So Jenna auditioned and I auditioned and I got a role which was like so weird. Again, another core memory was that first audition because they gave us music from the show, which was called Groovy! A Musical Comedy Tribute to the 1960s. And they gave us like a sixteen bar cut. And I remember my hands shaking and me not being able to look like re sing or read and my eyes were blurry. And I just remember the one teacher standing in front of me saying, that's okay, just look at the music. ‘Cause I think I was looking beyond the music [Laughter] like trying to remember words. But I got a role and it was super weird. I don’t…that was the first time anyone was like, ‘Hey, do you know you can sing?’ And I said no. And after that I did other middle school musicals and I think in seventh grade I had one friend who did tech at Summer Stage and then Jenna was doing Summer Stage, she was doing Schoolhouse Rock Live Too! and I went to see Schoolhouse Rock. I remember laughing very hard at the Summer Stage song, which is so ironic because like fast forward however many years [five] and I'm sobbing on stage singing the Summer Stage song [can verify, I was in the right balcony.] Then finally in seventh or eighth grade, my dad got in line because at that time he had to ~*•physically get in line in the morning to do Summer Stage•*~. And and he was with Jenna's mom cause I only do what Jenna does [Laughter.] and they signed up, they signed me up for Summer Stage. Well she signed Jenna up, but he signed me up for Summer Stage and that was that you know, [Laughter.] that's how we got there.
STEPHEN: You went on to study theatre like in school and then also did the Disney College Program.
ALI: Yeah.
STEPHEN: What was that like being in an environment where you're a creator but also managing guests?
ALI: Yeah, it was awesome. I got the role of a lifetime I think accidentally. It wasn't anything I had heard of, but I auditioned for like character performers and stuff. I didn't get it, which was a blessing in disguise. And then at that time, again, I feel like I'm talking about a hundred years ago ‘cause now everyone finds out what their college program assignments are like before they get there online, which is crazy. But at that time you didn't find out until you arrived in Disney World. Which is also an insane thing to do, to be like, ‘I'm here for a job [Laughter.] I dunno what it is, but I'm here to work.' But I ended up getting the attractions Disney Junior Live on stage and the Voyage of the Little Mermaid, which at the time was also a live show. Rest in peace, it's gone forever. But you worked in both theatres and you worked multiple positions, which meant, you know, sometimes you were just Fast Pass or whatever sitting in the front, you know, using a clicker to make sure the theater didn't overfill. But a lot of the positions did include guest interaction. There was one which I feel like you and all of our friends now know, which is me yelling “Ahoy, sailors,” and then talking to a lobby of guests, which was…that was my favorite thing. And it felt…it kind of fulfilled many of my loves and needs in terms of, I love interacting with people and actually like being off the stage and talking to people and helping them figure out problems and kind of just being the kindest, most helpful person in a room. I love that energy, but then also being a cast member and performing at all times and really just making everyone happy as best as I could. Like that's all Disney is about, right? And I think sometimes if you're stuck at a ride, you don't get as much of that. And that's why I say it's a blessing and disguise. I didn't know what those shows were. I didn't know what those jobs were, but once I was there I was like, this is so fun. And it didn't bother me that I was watching shows ‘cause I still felt like I was a part of it, like when I was in the house working the house and just getting to interact with all the little kids and make their day, it felt like the perfect integration, for me, of guest interaction and of, you know, working one-on-one with people as well as performing and having these improv monologues kind of that we got to say before the show, like our pre-show spiels, we all got to put her on twist on them and I just had a blast. I loved it. I loved every second. I wish I could go back and do that exact job again. It was so fun.
STEPHEN: That sounds perfect with the improv, like you and Jenna have such a good rapport of taking something and turning it into like a bit that…it’s like a one act play.
ALI: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
STEPHEN: Like the amount of times that I would just sit in your basement and I like don't talk for a half hour because there is something that has come up and it is a show, I'm like, ‘I don’t know what’s happening [Laughter.] and I really like it. I cannot improvise the way that they do.’ So it's like…I love that like that got to be…that you had that experience of improvising with people and creating something like that in Disney while guests are waiting. [Laughter.]
ALI: I know. And we got to pull little kids and like we had a little hand mic and we could make them say things which was fun ‘cause you never know what a little kid's gonna do or say. Like right beforehand I could say like, ‘When I turn the mic to you, you're gonna say on with the show.’ And they'd be like, ‘Okay.’ And then I'd be like, ‘All right, my friend Molly here has something to say,’ and I turn the mic to them and they'd be like ‘Ummm,’ and you just have to, you know, it's just silliness and you have to figure out what's gonna happen. And I had a blast. [Laughter.]
STEPHEN: Yeah God and being around kids all day every day. All the ears.
ALI: All of the ears.
STEPHEN: After you earned your ears…
ALI: Yes.
STEPHEN: …did you end up taking your experiences from Disney back to Summer Stage where you were in charge of a hundred kids at a time?
ALI: Yeah, big time. I think I took it back to like everything I've done. I think if everyone (I mean not everyone's like built to work at Disney I think just ‘cause it's so…hot) But if everyone could work at Disney and had the opportunity, they should take it because I just think you learn so much about people management, about keeping your composure no matter what the situation, about that kind of improv when some kid says something unexpected to you and you just have to respond while keeping it together. I think that the biggest one is probably keeping your composure. Like that's a big stage management thing and I think I got a lot of that from Disney when they're like, ‘The attraction's down, everyone's screaming, kids are crying, parents are saying you've ruined their entire trip.’ And just being able to say like, ‘Okay great, so I'm sure this will will move forward soon. What can I do to help you in this moment?’ And that's like such a stage management thing, you know? And a lot of the organizational stuff, you know like I was saying like using the…like just being able to count people and know where everyone is and know what's happening. I think I took all of that with me for sure.
STEPHEN: When I first heard that like Disney, like all Disney employees were called cast members. I was like, but why? And then I realized everyone is on. It’s like you're not like a character of yourself but it's almost like a performance?
ALI: Yeah it feels that way. The whole thing feels performance and like sometimes weird stuff. If anything like happened or went down and a manager had to talk to you, they would say like, ‘Did this happen on stage or off?’ [Laughter.] You’d be like, ‘Uh…it happened in the courtyard,’ like I dunno, what? That's the Disney magic!
STEPHEN: How did you find yourself back on at Summer Stage as staff?
ALI: So the year after I graduated Summer Stage, like from doing Children's Theatre, I applied to be an ASM, unpaid, just like wanna be there ‘cause I love it. And I got to ASM Cinderella, which was great, full circle, very fun. I didn't know what I was doing and I was bad at it but I was doing something and that's the best way to learn. When people say it's all about who you know, that's one of those cases where that's true. Like I never would've or should have gotten that job but because I like knew Summer Stage and they knew me, I think they were willing to just say, ‘Hey let's give her a shot.’ And I also was part of a team. There were two ASMs and the other one did a lot of work. [Laughter.] But I learned a lot. And then I actually…the very next year jumped to stage management because someone dropped out last minute. Again, I wasn't ready but it was one of those things where they were like, ‘We need someone, who do we know? Hey do you wanna jump up to stage management?’ And I was like, ‘I don't know what that means, but okay!’ And I did an okay job. It was for Rugrats, A Live Adventure, which I mean if there's a show that you're gonna kind of learn on, that's a great one ‘cause you can call a sound cue whenever you want and everyone's like, ‘That's probably when that was supposed to happen,’ [Laughter.] you know? Yeah. And I was very stressed, our tech director at the time sat me down and showed me how to mark out cues and everything, which I mean now the kids are very lucky. They have a stage management program I think they have to go to, it's like a day or two, ‘cause Summer Stage is its own animal, to learn how to do that. But at the time I just kinda got thrown into it. I did okay, it happened, it worked. I went back to ASMing for a year or two and then stage managed for a while after that. That's how I ended up being on the other side of the table at Summer Stage. And I'm very happy they gave me that opportunity cause now I love it so much.
STEPHEN: You said that stage managing at Summer Stage is like its own beast. There's a million kids, so in addition to regular stage management duties, you're, I don't wanna say a camp counselor ‘cause I don't like to describe Summer Stage as a camp, but there are a bunch of literal children and you're responsible for their wellbeing and teaching them etiquette. So what are those things that are pretty unique to being a stage manager at Upper Darby Summer Stage?
ALI: I think one is knowing that at any given time there's like three or four other shows happening on your same stage at that moment. So your set that you're rehearsing on probably isn't your set. And having to make sure all the kids like safety-wise are aware, you know, you may be blocked to walk up a staircase, that staircase doesn't exist, or like whatever. And really making sure that you leave the space cleaner than you found it because you know, mainstage might be coming in that night and be putting on a show. So we can't touch anything, we can't move anything. You know, wrangling the kids is a big one every morning. Making sure they're all in and these are the camp counselor duties making their sure they're all in. If they're not calling parents, figuring out who's sick, figuring out, you know, whatever, dealing with those issues, knowing that you're only gonna tech in one day and then perform the next day. And just like that has to happen. It just has to and it always does and sometimes it feels like it's not going to, but when you stage manage at Summer Stage, you know, we gotta get it done today. It's very fast paced, there's a lot going on. It's like a perfectly well-oiled machine and you just gotta keep moving. Especially with children's theatre. Like there just can't be issues. There simply can't. If something, if a set piece can't be built, if a prop is missing, we gotta keep…we don't have the time to go back and build a new one or figure it out or…like we don't have previews, you know. So that's what I would say, is like Summer Stage is its own animal. I feel like outside of Summer Stage you might, and every theatre is different but you probably have a little more open time, a little more time to figure things out and be on your own stage. And we just don't have that luxury, which is cool ‘cause then the kids also learn in this super fast paced environment. And I'm sure when they go do theatre elsewhere they're like, whoa, we have like a tech week.
STEPHEN: How do you get yourself organized for that one day of tech? Either like the things that you do do beforehand to prepare yourself or your cast for that day or maintaining focus, you know, with, with the cast, ‘cause tech, it's busy, it's dangerous. And you as a stage manager are very, very far away from your cast on that day.
ALI: We give the kids a talk and you know, we say this is the most important day we prep our ASMs, which a lot of them still are very new. Like they were in the olden days when I was an ASM. So we prep them for, ‘Hey, always have your spike tape and your packing tape on your arm, be on call so that you can come out and spike.’ ‘Causewe have to spike everything that day as well. And then we have to perform it the next day. So the ASM has to be all prepped for that. I tell the kids, you know, bring a book, bring…that’s the one day I'm kinda like, bring your phone ‘cause like, I just want you to be quiet [Laughter.], you know, and it's like, it's okay. Like sit, just make sure you're listening, bring whatever you need. Everyone has to bring their own food. That's a very like camp thing. I feel like in real adult life you can like go out and grab something, but in Summer Stage life it's, you cannot leave the building my friend because I do not trust you to come back [Laughter.] My secret is, and I'm gonna say this out loud because I just believe in it, everyone's like, no eating costume, no eating costume. Here's what I say: goldfish pretzels, granola bars. Because I don't want anyone passing out on my watch. And if you're backstage, don't eat something that's gooey, but like, I just want you to be healthy and safe. And then the other part of Summer Stage tech is you tech the whole show and then you run it twice at least. So just having the kids, you know, prepped for, ‘Hey, maybe don't put 110% energy into this. This is mostly for lights and sounds and whatever.' Like you don't need to be screaming and losing your voices just for these runs and just pushing to get that, that day done. And sometimes you don't get too runs in and that's okay, but the, the goal is to get those two runs in.
STEPHEN: I so appreciate your honesty with your cast about eating in costume because you know, I see it in the real world where people are like really strict about like costumes and I'm like, we've been on stage for so long and I really need to eat something.
ALI: Yeah, it's a safety hazard.
STEPHEN: You can't get everyone undressed to like eat something and then come back ‘cause that, that requires a whole, you know, if you're doing like Equity, like you need like a half hour, like it's like a whole thing.
ALI: And I'm like, if the costume is that expensive, bring a plastic bag as a bib, tuck it in and eat your goldfish. [Laughter.] You know, like, I'm just like, it's not that deep. That's one of those things that I like, feel very weirdly passionately about because I get lightheaded very easily and I feel like I've been yelled at for having a granola bar and I'm like, okay, I'll pass out. You know, like it's just, it just makes me mad. [Laughter.] So I tell my kids, be smart, don't make a mess. Don't get anything on your costume. Goldfish, pretzels, granola bars.
STEPHEN: I wanna hear about some of your experiences as a director. You're casting a show with youth performers that's going to be performed for other youths in the area who it's usually their first time going to a theatre. A lot of Summer Stage, it's like providing a theatre experience for audience members who have never seen the play before. And your cast is only a few years older than the group that they're performing for. And usually you're doing a show that's based on a cartoon or a movie or something that's very, very popular that year. Like everyone's doing, Don't Let the Pigeon Drive the Bus, which I do love. So my mom is the kindergarten teacher and she has her kids read that and it's like super, super popular and the Elephant in Piggie, which is like in that same kind of world we love, I see a picture and I'm like, I know that's from Elephant and Piggie just from the poses and those glasses, [Laughter.] I'm always right. So what is your casting process like when you're casting theater for young audiences at Summer Stage?
ALI: Well, as you very well know, it depends on which show you're working on because, and this is not gonna make sense if people listen and they don't know summer stage. But if you are casting for shows one, two, or three, you have from 9:00-4:30. If you're casting for shows four, five, or six, you have from 1:00-4:30 and it's very different. And I've worked on both. When you have all day 9:00-4:30 moment, you take the whole morning, which 9:00-1:00 you have auditions. And for Summer Stage we do, every director, I think, you get to do your own thing. They give you, they just say, ‘Hey, you have auditions and you know how it works and do whatever.’ I like to give two song options, probably one that's more male presenting and one that's more female presenting if those are exist in the show shorter than sixteen bars, like as short as it can get, just show me that you can hit a note and that you know, whatever. And then I also like to give like three sentences of a monologue because if they don't wanna sing, if they're not a great singer, there's always roles that don't have to sing or that have songs, but they can maybe be spoken words. [Laughter.] So if, you know, if someone's great they can do that. So, and I really take my time if we have all morning and then in the afternoon from 1:00-4:30 you would have callbacks. And a fun fact about Summer Stage, that's the only day that kids might get released at lunch and it's always a little bit heartbreaking because they are just kids. A big thing for me is not to waste people's time. So I know that we love giving everyone their chance and I will give a lot of people their chance, but I also have been on teams where people are so kind and empathetic and lovely that they wanna call the whole cast back. And that's I think like one wasting people's times and two losing time for us to really see the people that are gonna bring these characters to life best and serve the story best and capture the audience like that, as you said, that is not much older or younger than our actors. If I have the whole afternoon, I usually have my scenes picked out and I really, really love having the time to give people notes and give them what's the word I'm looking for, adjustments. I figured it out I really, really love having the time to give people adjustments and see how these, you know, young actors take to that ‘cause it might be the first time they've been given an adjustment and it's very fun to see them loosen up. And again, I'm a big one on really finding people who serve the story best, and Summer Stage is an educational program and I love taking chances on people. But with high school theatre I think you often have to choose like one project if that makes sense. Like if there's a song that's super hard and there's an actor that's so good for it but we need to help them sing, then that's our project and that's the chance we're gonna take. And with the rest…do you know what I'm saying? Like with the rest of them we really have to go like quick and straightforward casting wise, if any of this sounds unkind, I'm so sorry but it's so quick, it's all so fast. And then it's even worse if you're working on shows four, five, and six ‘cause from 1:00-4:30 you have to have potentially ninety kids audition. So at that point I probably would do one song and say sing it in the best octave if you know, if you can't hit the notes, do spoken word and talk to me if you think you know, ‘Hey I didn't do my best but I would like another chance,’ ‘cause we can figure it out. Maybe a monologue, maybe not because there's just so little time they do a dance audition, which as a director I love to try and step in and watch some of it. But it's, there's no time. And then callbacks are like so rough for that because you see a scene and you'd love to switch everyone up and try people as different characters, but sometimes it's just like I've seen what I needed to see. Like seeing people read for let's say guest on and LeFou and being like, oh my gosh that LeFou actually would be great as Gaston, but I don't have the time but I know it, I just know it so we're just gonna keep moving, you know? So it's rough because there probably are times when people would've been great in some roles and you just didn't have the time to see them. And that like breaks my heart because I know Summer Stage, like for me the stakes were so high when I was in it and if I had only known that like we people may just not have had the time to see me and that doesn't mean I wasn't good for it and that doesn't mean I didn't have the ability. It's just like the whole process is just like a train that can't stop and sometimes that stinks. But I do also believe everything, everything, everything always happens the way it's supposed to. And you know, you each actor will be led on the correct path. I just think it's important to find who wants to serve the story best. Like that's what I always tell them. I tell them every audition I say like, read the lines as the role you want. It's kind of the like dress for the job you want. I'm like, if you don't want the role that I've called you back for, read the lines as the role you want and I'll see it. And you know, [Laughter.] like, and we'll, we'll make that, I'll see what you want. You tell me, make my job easy. Yeah. But that's, that's how I head into auditions. And then I also tell them my catchphrase is: the stakes couldn't be lower. I'm always like, it's Summer Stage you guys, the stakes simply could not be lower. Everyone relax, it's fine. It's all gonna be fine.
STEPHEN: I love this insight as a former Summer Stager.
ALI: Yeah, it's really tough and like you have to break some hearts and it sucks because it, I just wish we had more time. I say that every time and like I just wish I could see more and I, cause everyone deserves a chance, but we just don't have the time. But the stakes are low and everyone has the chance to shine at Summer Stage.
STEPHEN: That is true. In addition to putting on a show that people are paying money to see and love and enjoy, you are also like leading and teaching these kids how to be great performers and also great people. What is your approach as a director to do that in that limited three week period you have with each group?
ALI: I love that question so much ‘cause I'm very passionate about it. I always say Summer Stage is an educational program first and foremost. I tell my kids day one when we get in I say, “Congratulations, you were all cast! Eyyy!” and I get everyone all hyped up and that's what I mean by the stakes couldn't be lower. I'm always like, this is an educational program. This is a chance to make the friends you will have for the rest of your life. I'm rarely if ever gonna yell at them to be quiet or whatever. Like I, and this is stolen from Gina Giachero actually, I will always say like, ‘~•*Oh my gosh, you're having so much fun. Stop having fun.*•~’ Like, I always like, I try to keep it…because like it should be fun. I just feel like sometimes it's very easy as a director to focus on having the best show and that sucks the fun out of a room at Summer Stage. I mean like obviously if we were working in a professional theatre, I'd be like, 'This has gotta be a good show people are paying,’ you know. But I also think at Summer Stage, the best shows are the ones where the kids are having the most fun. I often remember when I saw Dora the Explorer, Live and I cried because a show that could have been a dead, like that could have been nothing was so much fun ‘cause the kids were having a blast. And that was it for me. Like they wanted to look me in the eyes and tell me how Dora got to the mountain and like be smiling while they said it. And they were so excited about it that it made me excited. And that's what I tried to teach is like, it doesn't matter if you're playing Dora if you're ensemble and you're looking a kid dead in the eyes and you're saying, you know, ‘Where's the giant chicken?’ Like that's gonna be just as important as being Dora. So that's kind of what I try to instill in all of them. Something I try to do every summer is I buy all the kids a spiral bound notebook. It's like a dollar, it doesn't, you know, it's not very much. And I tell them, ‘Please, oh please, I would love, I don't expect you to not be on your phones. Like it's, you know, that's the age we live in. But if you find yourself sitting in rehearsal, not being used for a moment, I would love if you took out that notebook and do whatever you wanna do. Whether that's drawing your character, writing a diary, entry from the point of view of your character, writing from the outside, viewing your character whatever you want it to be. Just do some character work, writing a grocery list of things you think your character would pick up.’ You know, like just random stuff. And then I try to find a day, and I've been so blessed with the past two shows I've done, which is even honestly even we did like, I'll say three ‘cause we did Aladdin for Rising Stars and it, it worked with that as well ‘cause you have people in a town essentially. In Aladdin I was like, ‘We are all towns folk in a mystery town, [Laughter.] and that's that.’ And then we had Spookley, which everyone was like a something on a farm, but not animals. Like we were all like gourds, which is so fun. And then How I Became Pirate, we're all pirates, which is like freedom, extreme, creative freedom. So I have everyone take this time, sometimes I assign a little time, like most of the time it's, hey, do this on your free time. But I usually have a day where we're all gonna sit quietly from there, like fifteen minutes and just do whatever you want in your notebook. No phones. Like that's the one time I'm gonna say no phones. And then we split into circles and everyone starts sharing what they've written. And I say, ‘And your stories can cross paths.’ Now you can say, ‘Oh my gosh, wait, what if you were my mom? Oh my gosh, wait, what if you were my best friend since we were children? What?’ And now we can start making these characters that, you know, have these stories. And then my next favorite part, I give everyone new numbers and we split into new circles and now everyone has to share the stories that they've built and continue building. And when I tell you the times that I've done this at in the beginning, in the silent moment, they're like, ‘Ugh, we have to write. Like, this is so boring.’ By the end they're all like screaming at each other. And I'll like, again, like I just sit back and let it happen. And I will, like, if I see the topic start changing, I'm like, ‘Oh, we're in character, right? Like we're keeping this in character.’ And then at the end of the day they have the the chance to share what they've chosen. And it is the most fun day of the summer because the stories they come up with are like, [Laughter.] it's so funny and I'll allow it. Like I don't care. I'm like, if it gives context to everything you do on stage as an ensemble, like that's so fun and you guys are having fun and now like they're making eye contact on stage and laughing but not out loud. It's because of this weird backstory that they made. It's just like silliness and it's fun and it's not homework, it's not go home and write this down. It's like, do this right now with your friends. Like, it's so silly. And then something I try to do, which I don't know if costumers appreciate, but I am so blessed to have had costumers that are willing to work with me on this is when they build these characters, I say go as far as you want, complete creative freedom design. Like if you're someone who loves fashion design, draw out a ballgown and like show it to me, email me pictures, whatever. And then at the end of rehearsal I'll have everyone come up to me and give me some basics of what they wish their character looked like. Whether that means just like, ‘My character loves purple, I would love purple in my costume.’ ‘I love the feathers, my character is a skateboarder.’ Like what? Just like some basic details. And then I'd try to give that over to the costumer and I say, I always say nothing is promised, but if our costumer can get little tidbits of your detail into your costume, then we'll do it. Why wouldn't we so that ‘cause that that makes everything so specific and unique and it's just so cool to see. And then the kids get their costumes and they're so excited ‘cause they get things that they never would have if they didn't have that opportunity. I remember one of my lovely non-binary cast members was like, I wanna be [Laughter.]…they were a pirate and they were like, ‘I wanna be a dad, though.’ And I was like, one [Laughter.] And they were like, ‘So like if I could get like a mustache and like a belly or something,’ And I was like, we absolutely can do that. Like, that's so easy. And then they were so happy and their whole character was informed by this mustache and this belly and the way they interacted with everyone. And that's what I feel so passionately about. That's how we like create actors who enjoy playing the roles that are quite possibly seen the least they can make the most of it ‘cause they've built this completely whole being that they now get to show on stage. And I just love it. It's amazing to see and it's so fun and I don't think that's Summer Stage specific. I think if I worked somewhere else with more time I would do even more of that ‘cause it's a blast. And that's what I have to say about how I make these shows. So fun to watch if you're any ensemble, ‘cause you can look at anyone and they have a completely whole and informed character built.
STEPHEN: I love that. I mean, ‘cause whenever I'm watching shows or like even in rehearsals and I'm like, what's the ensemble up to and like looking, I'm like, oh my god, there's like a whole thing going on over there.
ALI: It’s so fun and it like, it depends on the show of like what you can get. How I Became a Pirate was really fun ‘cause we were all on a ship. So then I said, ‘What do you want your jobs to be? I can ask our props designer to get it. Like, what do you want?’ And a lot of them were like, ‘A mop,’ and I was like, ‘Be more creative. We can do more like, you know, like it's fast and it's quick, but like if you want something silly we can probably get something silly like pie in the sky, dream big, what do you want your job to be on the ship?’ And some of them were really funny, like somebody had a bucket that had fish and a like…no an axe, what's the word? Like they were like chopping fish. Like I don't [Laughter.]…It's like so silly to watch. I love it.
STEPHEN: I love that because like there aren't adult pirate shows so you're not gonna get that.
ALI: Yeah.
STEPHEN: With like your leads too. Is it something where you’re…because they have lines and they have songs and sometimes when you're doing material that’s very Disney or Nickelodeon it's like, this is the character and they look like this and they talk in this specific, I mean like you did PAW Patrol, you know that some things can get strict.
ALI: Yeah.
STEPHEN: What kind of character exercises are you doing with your speaking roles in these situations to bring them to life in a way that's recognizable to the audience but also make it so that it's an actor and they are making choices and they feel free while they're telling the story?
ALI: I do always say, like, when I give this whole spiel about like pie in the sky, dream big, do whatever you want. And then I'll always like look to our leads and be like, you're a little locked in. I'm sorry, like, I do apologize. You're not gonna be able to tell me what your costume is ‘cause I'm gonna decide what your costume is. But they are involved in all of those character building exercises because I do think like no matter what role you are outside of the plot of this show, you exist in this community and you have relationships with everyone in this ensemble. So they are a part of that. And again, I'm just thinking of How I Became a Pirate because it's the most recent one in my brain. But like our leading roles had relationships with everyone in the ensemble and that did affect the way they looked at each other when they crossed or like the, you know, little things. I usually do have moments with our leading roles where we sit in a circle and just kind of talk about what we're thinking about our characters and what we like, what we don't like, how we're feeling, how can I help? I give them a little more freedom and I give them their blocking and I give them notes. But I don't know how to describe like, I'm not gonna sit there and tell them what to do. I sit in our little circles. I love once a week just finding a moment and just saying like, how are you feeling? What's going on? Do we have any worries, questions about our character, questions about a scene. That's kind of what I do with my leading roles. And I do always say, this is educational program, you know me, but I say, I don't see you guys as leads. I do see you as leaders. You’re people everyone's gonna look to. So as human beings it's really important that you are leaders ‘cause quite literally everyone's looking at you cuz you're in the front of the stage. But other than that I will say I have not, except for Aladdin, which was pretty…it was Aladdin KIDS and it's very quick and it was like pretty cut and dry. Like it's just the story of Aladdin. With How I Became Pirate and Spookly we didn't have the strict rules of Disney. So we could have a little more fun with it. The kids could build what they wanted out of the characters and that's cool to just see them have that freedom. And that's kind of what I mean, going back to casting about, for me, finding people who serve the story best. I wanna find actors who I don't need to hold their hand through the character building, right? So I'll give you your blocking, I'll give you your notes, I'll give you whatever. But at the end of the day, I trust these people to dig deep and find the characters in their time off in their breaks and their moments that they have to look through the script. And if I need to take a character or an actor one-on-one, I will, I do with every show at some point. I know last year our lovely, lovely Jeremy Jacob who is one of the leading roles of How I Became a Pirate he’s little boy played by usually, oh actually you know what it's played by any gender ‘cause it was played by a male-presenting actor the first time and this past time it was a female-presenting actor. We just went into a room because I said, 'We gotta find seven year old boy energy.’ You know, I was like, ‘You're a teenage girl and right now you're giving me teenage girl and you're very cute and you're very fun and you're like four feet tall and that's like so cool and quirky about you, but we need to find the part of you that's like, I wanna dig in the sand and like, NYEAH.’ So we spent a while just like running around yelling [Laughter.] like singing her songs as loudly as she could standing in, I mean, it's the way I act naturally so it's funny, but I'm like standing in a lot of like Peter Pan poses and like, just like and just trying to find that little boy energy. And that was very fun because it just like makes people like laugh and feel uncomfortable, but I'm like, that's how you should feel a little bit, not like uncomfortable in a bad way, but uncomfortable in like, I'm just stepping outta my box. And we did the same during Spookley, I had a female-presenting actress who had this very like, high loud belty song and they were just, I know they had it. And completely understood. They were just like, ‘I'm just like a little afraid to hit the notes.’ And I was like, ‘All right, let's go.’ And we just went into a room and again, we like yelled, we did scales, we did Jumping Jacks sang and like all this stuff. And that character had to be very sassy and we had to find that in them as well. ‘Cause again, I relate to that actress, when she sang, she like kind of did like an angry look and I was like, oh my gosh, I do the same thing. [Laughter.] I was like, ‘We're gonna learn how to smile while we sing.’ But it's so fun. If I have actors who, we need a little one-on-one work, we totally will. And it's always fun. It's never like, ‘You're not doing well.’ It's, ‘You're amazing. How can we take the next step?’ And I love that. And I hope that they love it as well. I mean, of course they're gonna tell me that they did. I don't know. I always say, ‘I hope you don't go home and say like, Ali was mean. ‘Cause [Laughter.] I’m trying not, I like am not, you're all so wonderful.’ And I know that I wouldn't work with them if I didn't think they could take another step, you know?
STEPHEN: With Summer Stage, I mean this happens everywhere with producers, but with Summer Stage, the week before the show, there's like a staff preview and it's the first time the costumes are on and the the cast is doing a show for an audience that has not seen anything from it yet. And then afterwards, I remember sitting there like in the lobby, like, ‘cause the directors were all talking with the staff that watched it. And they're getting notes from Harry Dietzler who was the head of the program at the time. So as a director, you're seeing these kids every day, you're watching them grow into their roles and you know, all the history behind the characters. You're getting an adult audience as your first audience a week before you get like twelve hundred kids in the room.
ALI: It’s so scary when you like say it. [Laughter.]
STEPHEN: I’m scared, I've never directed my life. I can't imagine. So I'm asking you for podcast reasons, but also I want to know reasons: what is it like taking everything that you know, and you worked on presenting it to your staff and it's also like your friends are there too that you grew up doing Summer Stage with and then going and discussing the work and things that have to change or will happen within that week, as a director and knowing that kids are gonna be watching it, not adults, what is that meeting like?
ALI: So first I will say the staff previews I've had, I'm always shaking, like my hands are shaking when it start because I'm exactly like you said, like it's not only adults, it's not only random staff that you don't know, but it's also your colleagues and your friends. And that's just absolutely horrifying. The nice thing is they're probably the kindest audience of all time. They're gonna be the loudest, they're gonna cheer the loudest, they're gonna laugh the loudest. And that's really great. The meeting…I love the meeting, but I think because I've like conditioned myself to say like, the stakes are low and I don't think I'm an amazing director. I think that sometimes to a fault I think that Summer Stage is an educational program and everything's fun and the stakes are low. So the meeting is when I'm like, all right, tell me how the show is ‘cause I've just been having fun, you know? [Laughter.] And for the most part, our meetings have been, I mean the ones that I've been in have been super effective. I love notes, I love new eyes. I mean, any staff I've worked on, when I direct something, I immediately ask other people. I'm like just the choreographer, music director, whatever. I'm like, ‘Watch it because I don't know, you know, like I did it, but I don't know what it looks like.' Heading into that meeting, I'm probably already like, kind of having an adrenaline rush and I'm relaxed at this point ‘cause the show has happened and it's over and I'm like, it's all good. The show can happen. That sho… I'd sell tickets, you know, like, it's already fine. And I've gotten some notes that are like, not nice. I've gotten notes that are like, ‘Hey, that number was bad.’ And I say, ‘Thank you so much, tell me how to fix it. Because I agree.’ [Laughter.] That's happened where I'm like, I don't know what to do. I've tried it multiple ways and I hate it and it's not their fault. I just don't know what to do. And you get great notes. I love…they everyone on staff fill out a little form that says like, ‘My favorite parts,’ ‘What was I confused about?’ ‘What do I think needs help?’ ‘What do I think shouldn't change at all?’ And I love getting those because they're anonymous and people are very honest. And because I can read all the compliments to the kids and that really builds them up. And I like previews. I like changing things. For How I Became a Pirate, there was one number that got the, ‘Hey, this, this is bad.’ And we spent a day completely changing it and it was so fun. Like [Laughter.] I love that. And with that particular number, I had everyone sit in a circle and I said, ‘This number is not reading. That's a note we got. How do we, what do, how do you guys feel? Like, why do you think it isn't reading?' And they all told me their, you know, confusion and why they were having a hard time telling the story. And I said, ‘That's great feedback. I wish I had known this.’ You know, like, I wish I had known. And then we completely changed the number and it was better. I had another number that was pretty simple. It was a stand and sing, but in the preview meeting they were like, 'It just felt disconnected.’ Something about it, like the, the blocking, I don't know, it was weird. And that was another one. And I tell the kids, I'm like, ‘You guys are great. Who directed this show? Because it's bad.’ [Laughter.] I’ll say that. I'm like, ‘Man, who blocked this? This blocking sucks.’ And like, that stand and sing number, I completely changed, which does not help our lighting designer who is now trying to light based off of the preview video. But it worked like that particular number was so much more beautiful because we made everyone stand in different places. So for me, the preview itself absolutely horrifying, shaking, sitting in the back of the house. Do not wanna look anyone in the eyes preview meeting. So fun, relaxed. I love hearing. I don't wanna hear like the show sucks, [Laughter.] but I do love hearing, ‘That number could be better this way because I need that,’ and that's the only way I'm gonna grow. It's an educational program for me too.
STEPHEN: So as someone who is leading, but then also learning and then actively auditioning in the field, what are some things that you have taken from this experience and applied to your career as a performer?
ALI: Definitely just again, ‘the stakes couldn't be lower.’ That sentence. When I go to an audition, I say that to myself all the time. I'm like, ‘If you don't get this, nothing lost, nothing gained. The stakes couldn't be lower. Your life will stay exactly the way it is.’ Definitely ‘audition for the role you want.’ Like, when I said that out loud to people, I was like, oh wait, I could do that too. I think, I mean, Summer Stage in general and Shooting Stars big time taught me how to get through a dance call, even if you're not a great dancer, sing through something even if you messed up the lyrics, don't show them. I think that kind of stuff comes from. for me, how fast paced Summer Stage is, how smiley and Disney-esque Summer Stage is. I just feel like I took so much of that and I'd bring it to all my auditions and people say in auditions, they're like, ‘You're so bubbly,’ ‘You're so this,’ ‘You're so,’ I'm like, I'm just being a Shooting Star [Laughter.], you know, like, this isn't me all the time, stop it. Yeah, I think big time Summer Stage has helped me in my career. I actually do think Shooting Stars most of all. I always, I know you asked about like directing and stuff, but I say to this day, Shooting Stars has helped me in my career more than like going to college. [Laughter.]
STEPHEN: I said that in my interview with Bob Falkenstein a couple weeks ago. He was asking me a lot about my time at Temple. I'm like, ‘I learned…what I needed to know from Summer Stage.’ [Laughter.]
ALI: It’s true.
STEPHEN: By putting us in it and being like, ‘Here's some microphones. You're in a nursing home. It's 11:00. Go.’
ALI: Yeah. The show I'm directing this summer, I'm very excited about because thus far as we've been saying, I've only done storybook shows where we have all this freedom. You know, it's like the set is tiny and the costumes are fun or whatever. This year I'm directing show six, which is already like, ah!, and it's Finding Nemo. I know! [Laughter.]
STEPHEN: I didn't know the rights were out!
ALI: The rights are out and it's mine. And it feels very full-circle to me. As you remember, like when we were in high school, Finding Nemo was a huge deal. We saw it when we were in Disney with the Shooting Stars. We all loved it. We all were like self-casting ourselves, being, ‘I’m gonna meet this character,’ and getting that offer from Chris was like…when he said it, I literally put my face in my hands and said, ‘I feel like I've just won an award.’ [Laughter.] Something magical just happened. But I'm a little nervous about integrating that whole like build your own character situation because it's gonna be very specific about like who is a seaweed, [Laughter.] like who, you know, whatever. But, and it's also my first time doing a Disney, which means everyone has to look very particular. We're doing puppetry, which I mean, thank God for PAW Patrol. ‘Cause I'm gonna be like, ‘This is how you mech.’ I am so excited to take on that new monster and to do some puppetry, do some character building, talk about how it's Marlin's story and not Nemo's. Very, very excited. It's gonna be a brand new challenge.
STEPHEN: I’m so excited for that. Just because I watched that show with you in Disney World like two or three times
ALI: And over ten years ago. You know, like yeah. It just feels…that’s what I mean. I'm like, this is the most like full-circle Summer Stage moment for me to have watched that with all of my Shooting Stars friends and be like, ‘We love this.’ I have another core memory meeting the guy who taught us our Shooting Stars workshop up in Disney and saying, ‘When will the rights to Finding Nemo be out?' And he said, ‘We're hoping soon.’ And that was in like 2009 [Laughter.] and it's happening now. And like that I have that memory of asking for that and finally getting it.
STEPHEN: I’m so glad it finally happened.
ALI: I know. I'm so excited.
STEPHEN: Ali, thank you for speaking with me today and diving into Summer Stage.
ALI: Steve, thank you for inviting me. Thank you for thinking of me. I'm feeling so blessed.
STEPHEN: How can our listeners find out more about what you're directing this summer and where you are in the world?
ALI: You could certainly follow me on Instagram if you'd like. [Laughter] Is that weird? No, I love followers. Follow me on Instagram. My Instagram is my name @alicaiazzo. And then from there maybe you'll find my Disney Instagram. I'm not gonna link give it maybe you'll find it. Summer Stage’s Instagram [@udsummerstage], follow them as well. And usually they post little videos and fun things of the whole staff of every show. And we get to just be silly on TikTok and Instagram. So you should follow us there as well.
[The ending of the Upper Darby Summer Stage theme song "Magic Up Our Sleeve" plays.]
STEPHEN: Ali’s Instagram handle and the social media and ticketing information for Upper Darby Stage are linked in the show notes. Ali’s production of Disney’s Finding Nemo, Jr. runs August 9th and 10th at the Upper Darby Performing Arts Center, and you can find Ali’s puppeteering and vocal skills in PAW Patrol, Live! At Home on Paramount Plus. In this episode we heard selections from the 1996 recording of the Upper Darby Summer Stage theme song “Magic Up Our Sleeve,” written by Harry Dietzler and Mary Anne O'Brien Dietzler. This week’s Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party music is “Finale - The Big Blue World (Reprise)” from the 2007 recording of Finding Nemo: The Musical.
Find Ali Caiazzo:
INSTAGRAM: @ali.caiazzo
Ali Caiazzo in PAW Patrol, Live! At Home on Paramount Plus
Behind the scenes look at Ali’s 2022 production of How I Became A Pirate
Click here to purchase tickets for Disney’s Finding Nemo, Jr. at Upper Darby Summer Stage
Learn more about Upper Darby Summer Stage:
WEBSITE: https://summerstage.udfoundation.org/
FACEBOOK: @UDSummerStage
INSTAGRAM: @udsummerstage
Music from this episode:
"Magic Up Our Sleeve" by Harry Dietzler and Mary Anne O'Brien Dietzler
This weeks Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party music: “Finale - The Big Blue World (Reprise)” from the 2007 recording of Finding Nemo: The Musical
Listen to the Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party playlist here!
Connect with Pipe and Drape:
INSTAGRAM: @PipeAndDrapeStories
EMAIL: PipeAndDrapeStories@gmail.com
Host: Stephen Fala
Artwork: Stephen Gordon
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