[Pipe and Drape theme plays.]
STEPHEN FALA: I’m Stephen Fala, and you’re listening to Pipe and Drape, the only podcast that spotlights the creative minds behind the theatre for young audiences industry. Every two weeks I sit down with a theatre professional to hear their stories about the audition, rehearsal, and development process of theatre for young audiences. Each of them have bridged the path from youth to adulthood while living in worlds created for children. My guests have mounted shows small enough to fit in a minivan to productions so big they travel by caravan. You can join the conversation by emailing PipeAndDrapeStories@gmail.com or messaging @PipeAndDrapeStories on Instagram.
This is Episode 10 of Pipe and Drape. Puppetry is a major part of theatre for young audiences and my guest today shares stories from her journey as a dancer, to a Henson and Tartaglia puppeteer and freelance puppet builder. Thank you for listening with me today.
S: Today’s guest is puppeteer and puppet designer and fabricator Arlee Chadwick. Arlee has puppeteered Off-Broadway, nationally, and internationally in The Very Hungry Caterpillar Show, John Tartaglia’s ImaginOcean, Jim Henson’s Dinosaur Train Live!, That Golden Girls Show! A Puppet Parody, multiple live shows with Sesame Street, and she’s danced regionally in productions all over the country. Arlee’s work as a puppet builder and costume designer and stitcher was seen in New York and across North America in shows with Rockefeller Productions (such as Paddington Gets in a Jam, That Golden Girls Show, and The Very Hungry Caterpillar Show), the Swedish Cottage Marionette Theatre, New York City Ballet, Summer Theatre of New Cannan, and Theatre for the New City. She shares her building and performance gifts with us on her channel Puppets by Arlee, which you can find in this episode’s show notes. Arlee has taken a break from creating, teaching, and performing to sit down with me in my Washington Heights apartment to discuss her work as a puppet builder and costumer in New York City. Arlee, welcome.
ARLEE CHADWICK: Thank you for having me.
S: How are you on this autumnal day?
A: Very excited to be on this podcast because I am a long-time listener, first-time guest.
S: So Arlee and I work together at the Swedish Cottage Marionette Theatre in Central Park. And we spent some time in the pub immobile together, bringing free theater out to all five boroughs of New York. And during that time we have caught up with each other, caught our lives up a little bit, but I never found out: what kind of things you were doing when you were a little kid? What games were you playing?
A: As a little kid I would…my parents have a great big backyard. And they also watch a lot of PBS. So I remember as a little kid going out into the backyard and pretending and playing Masterpiece Theatre in the backyard. I pretended to be British; I would practice my British accent walking around in the backyard, playing in the dirt. So I guess that's one of my earlier memories of theatre as a young, as a young theater person.
S: I love that combination of backyard dirt and theatre. That's so raw.
A: Yeah.
S: Did you want to be an actor when you grew up?
A: I either wanted to be a comedian, a veterinarian, or a dancer. And my mom told me that two of those don't make a lot of money, and then I never really decided until…until…I’ve still not decided.
[Laughter.]
S: Do you remember seeing theatre when you were in elementary school?
A: I grew up in Boulder, Colorado, and there is a pretty successful, locally owned dinner theatre in there called the Boulder Dinner Theatre. And actually Colorado in the 90s was kind of a haven of dinner theatres. There was a lot of dinner theater activity. And I remember my first show was in…I was probably like early elementary school. My folks took me to a production of The Unsinkable Molly Brown there, probably 1988 something like that. And I had been to several shows there, but I don't know if it ever translated that I wanted to do it, but I did really enjoy going to those shows.
S: Do you remember what you ate?
A: Why yes! They have a (and there's they still have it) they have a really (and all dinner theaters should have this): the chicken cordon bleu. You can buy them frozen, and then when you heat them up they're delicious!
S: You heard it here! I want to hear about your experience making costumes for marionettes. At the Swedish Cottage Marionette Theatre most of our marionettes are about a foot tall(?)
A: Yeah.
S: And there are so many of them because there are so many different shows and they need clothes to wear. What is it like designing clothes for a LiTtLe WoOdEn BoY?
A: If you're being official about it you'll make a sketch, but sometimes things are moving…things are behind and you don't do that, but I usually do make a sketch. And then the next thing you do is you have to drape it, which means you take two pieces of fabric and you envelope the puppet inside of it. So that way you can find out what the diameter, how to find pieces of fabric that will fit all the way around this specialized body. ‘Cause you have to draft your own patterns each time. So, okay. So you drape (that's called draping, when you sandwich the puppet inside two pieces of fabric) then you trace where it would go together and then you cut it out and then you do something called truing the pattern where you lay it down one side and trace it, flip it over, lay it on the other side and trace it and then take the in-between. And then that's how you get a symmetrical shape of what you need to find a pattern piece that will fit equally around this puppet shape. And this is the same process when you're costuming any weird shaped puppet. And then you build the costume piece from like a sewing perspective. You use the same type of idea when you make little pants and making blazers with collars, and then you continue to so like normal. I do take a few short cuts because they are so small and things won't necessarily show up, but yeah, that's the process of how to get started. And if you want to see how to do this process, it is on my YouTube channel. You can make your own jacket and vest for a marionette and you can make puppet pants.
S: Time are you usually given to create—
A: Not enough. When I'm approached I usually ask for what the scope of it is so I can kind of judge. The simplest thing to make is like a puppet prairie dress. I can do that in about a few hours, but if it's more intricate, like there's collars and sleeves and more details, that'll take more time—a week, two weeks, more weeks, more weeks are better. I like to know beforehand. Yeah. So when somebody approaches you to make a costume that's what you should, you should ask: what is the scope of the project and when do you need it by? I think one of the scariest things in our industry is signing nondisclosure agreements. Have you signed those?
S: I’ve a couple.
A: Yeah?
S: I had to sign one for an audition recently.
A: For an audition?
S: Yeah…
A: Sometimes as a puppet builder you have to sign non-disclosure agreements in order to tell the client if you're able to take on the build or not because they have their project that they want to keep secret until they're ready, but you can't tell them if you can build it until you have to…so you have to sign the agreement so that they can show you what their project is that they need built.
S: Wow.
A: Yeah.
S: Have you ever had to deal with that then?
A: I mean, it's not a huge deal, but yeah. Yeah. And then you can say, “This, this is too much. No!”
S: But then you walk around with that knowledge…
A: You walk around with that exciting knowledge that you know what show is coming up and you know you're not building it.
S: At the cottage…their shows have a lot of puppets. Do they ask you to make costumes for all of them?
A: I mean, if it's a new show and I'm the one that's building the costumes, yeah you'd costume the whole show. And the thing that’s specific with marionettes: they don't do costume changes as well at all because their strings are through. So you have to build doubles if you need a costume change in a marionette show, I have been asked to refurbish costumes ‘cause they get gross and old. And that's a little easier because you can take apart the previous costume lift the pattern, like trace the pattern pieces. So that saves time.
S: What are your resources for fabric?
A: My resources are (are you writing this down? Okay.) My favorite fabric stores in the city are: for cheap Save-A-Thon in Harlem on a 103 Street and 3rd Avenue. The problem with Save-A-Thon is if you need to rebuild (like with Paddington, I've built it several times, the same costumes, and I need to have the same exact fabric each time) you can't go to Save-A-Thon for that. They get what they get from wherever they get it and when it runs out you can't get more. So if you want to…if it's a thing you might have to build multiple times, don't go to Save-A-Thon. My other favorite place to go is Elegant Fabrics in the Garment District. They're nice because they have a little code that you can write down and then they can always bring back the same exact fabric that you bought from them previously. So for all the Rockefeller stuff, I try to go there. And then if it's like a specialized wool or something for suiting then I'll go to Mood. You know, if possible, whenever I'm building, try to get a resource where you know you can buy the same exact thing again, because it needs to be the same each time you rebuild something. We don't encounter that at the cottage very often, but at Rockefeller Productions where they're making licensed characters yes, they need the exact same thing because the publicity photos have to match whatever set are coming in. So it needs to look exactly the same.
S: Did you study costuming?
A: I did not. When I was a kid I was in 4-H and one of the projects in 4-H is sewing. And my mom, she's a seamstress and she, through the 4-H program, she taught me how to sew. I even learned how to tailor wool suits as a kid. And I used to be in these competitions called the Make It With Wool Contest. They are fashion shows that happen at local malls put on by the National Wool Growers Association to promote people sewing with a hundred percent wool and I made like several suits. And, you know, if you win you can win fabric and scissors and really glamorous stuff like Pendleton fabric, like really nice 100% wool. And it’s gotta be a hundred percent wool. And how you find out if a fabric is a hundred percent wool is you take strands of it and you put it in bleach overnight. And if it's all disappeared by the next morning, it's a hundred percent wool. If there's still strands of plastic leftover you can't use it. So that's a good test for any of you who need to find out if you're using a hundred percent wool or not. And for when I was a teenager at the last Make It With Wool competition I made a hundred percent wool gown for prom. I made a wool gown and I did wear it to a high school dance and it was hot. So that's my sewing journey. And it’s proven to be helpful cause I've gotten several seamstress jobs.
S: Were you a puppet builder and costumer for companies like Rockefeller and the cottage before you were a performer or vice versa…
A: No, my degree is in dance. And then I worked for Sesame Street, Live!and I got a foot injury. And then I was so distraught cause I moved to New York to be a dancer. You know, I wanted to be Ann Reinking or whatever and so I came, I couldn't renew my contract on the last, you know, I had this terrible foot industry injury and I was like, ‘Oh God, what do I do?’ And when I'm in crisis I go visit my friend, Wendy and in Austin, Texas. And I went to her and I was hanging out with her and then she had to go to some event and there was a fortune teller at the event. And so I went to this fortune teller and I asked him, I said, ‘Will I ever dance again?’ And he puts out all the tarot cards and he said, ‘Yes, but you'll have new legs.’ I was like, ‘[Gasp] What does that mean?’ And then two weeks later I saw the audition notice for the Swedish Cottage Marionette Theatre. And then I went to it, and I have Sesame Street on my resume. Does it…it says the words (it's a dance job, it's a separate company) but it says the word “Sesame Street” so I think that's why they thought maybe I might know anything about puppetry and they hired me for some reason. And that was my first puppetry job. And since then I've been slowly doing more and more puppetry. And that's how I got into it: by accident.
[Laughter.]
S: You also worked on a massive show with dinosaurs.
A: Yeah. I was on Dinosaur Train Live!, that was a show produced by three companies: Henson and Gables Grove (which was John Tartaglia’s company) and Mills Entertainment, which handled the road show aspect of it.
S: How was that? I mean those things are huge.
A: You know, we had top-notch puppets, but with puppet design you can't predict all of the things that may happen to a puppet as it performs on the road for like ten shows a week. So we tried to keep the puppets together as much as we could. They were well-made but all puppets break. And that was one thing that we struggled with on that show. At Hungry Caterpillar we had (and children's theatre shows do this a lot) where they either sell it as an extra incentive or just invite all audience members up to come on stage afterwards for pictures. And some, and I I've done it with adult shows with the Golden Girls show, but Hungry Caterpillar…parents always think that they need the kids to have snacks. And then the kids, they come up with the Cheeto dust on their hands and they want to touch the caterpillar and you know you're holding it and you're like…you try to keep the sticky fingers off of them. It's a process.
S: Oh my Gosh.
A: Because it can't be like washed. You have to like, you use shout wipes to surface clean it, but you know, you don't want your puppet that's very expensive or like takes a lot of like three months to build…you don't want Cheeto dust on your puppet—on the star of your show.
S: Were you the one that built the caterpillar?
A: There's been several renditions. 2017, I led the led the build of the Off-Broadway production for Rockefeller Productions. It was seventy-five puppets and I built, and then I rounded up fabricators to also help with the build, and then there were three more productions because they sell productions to other countries and other theatres, so I've made three sets of the actual caterpillars. And so that's like the baby caterpillar and two hero caterpillars, the fat caterpillar, and the butterfly.
S: Were you working directly with the designer, or were you just kind of given instructions and they were like, ‘Good luck.’
A: That is something that the head of the company would navigate, because when you're working with a licensed character you have to be sure that their design shows up in the puppet that's made. And there's kind of a learning curve when you take a 2D picture and then you create it into a 3D object. And sometimes when you're using artwork like the Eric Carle artwork that he makes that's all crazy and from different angles, it actually isn't real, you know, like one illustration would be one shape 3D and another illustration would be…‘cause sometimes the eyes are on the side of the face or sometimes they're here. So you have to like navigate what they want to combine all of those looks into. Like what they decide should be the 3D look. And sometimes it is hard to find what the client wants when it becomes a 3D object and it's their property; they have to approve it. They’re on the line if it doesn't look like the essence of the character. So that's tough, that is a process that you go through and at Rockefeller Productions they do a great job navigating the relationship between the companies that own the characters and how it comes out in the puppet design.
S: What is the coolest thing that you got to do because of children's theatre?
A: You know what, one of the most magical children's theatre experiences I've ever had was: I've done many shows for deaf and hearing impaired. And so they bring…even in ImaginOcean (which was a show that was completely in the dark) they gave our sign language interpreter these bright neon yellow gloves, and she would sign for the kids on stage with us, like off to one side of course. And I've always thought that was really cool. But one time at a random theatre in Virginia somewhere (?), I don't know, we did a show for visually impaired kids and it really changed my perspective of who deserves to enjoy theatre and how kids can enjoy theatre. ‘Cause we did the show and then we went and we took the puppets (his was for Hungry Caterpillar by the way) we took them into a meet and greet and we showed the kids the puppets and it was so neat. The kids would…I'd walk up and I would say, ‘Who would like to touch the purple cat?’ You know, kids would raise their hands, then I'd take their hands and put them on the puppet and then…yeah, and it was a really amazing experience and it taught me that I don't necessarily know who deserves to enjoy theatre depending on who they are. And that was a really special show for me.
S: I love children's theater so much,
A: Nothing is more magical than getting to perform in another country in another language and then still have the audiences understand and respond to you. That's a magical experience. I remember for Sesame Street Live!, I got to play Rosita in Mexico City and she's a big star there and it was fun. And it's so neat to see like how other countries respond. Like all throughout Asia, it seems like everyone's very, very quiet and polite until (and you think, ‘Oh Gosh, they must hate the show’) and then at the end they roar up. It's neat. I love it. Also magical: go perform My Little Pony Live! in Casper, Wyoming. People will love it! Or perform in Laredo, Texas people…the audiences all throughout Texas are amazing because you know in Texas they always want to make it a party. They buy all the merch and it's a big to do. I like performing in Texas a lot.
S: What was it like performing in a different language? Did you have to mech the puppet to a track in another language?
A: Yes.
S: How was that for you?
A: You just learn the other…you just relearn the show.
S: Wow.
A: Well, you practice with the track and then for Sesame Street Live! you train your hand.
S: I like children's theatre because…
A: I like children's theatre ‘cause it's all the fantastical things: talking animals and crazy situations and fantasy situations and those types of things. It's either extreme boredom or extreme excitement or extreme anxiety. Those are the three emotions you can have on the road.
S: How did you navigate those feelings when you're on the road?
A: I don't know. Probably not in a healthy way.
[Laughter.]
S: Tell us, tell us everything! We want to know!
A: I do find, I dunno, being on the road with people, it feels almost like an army buddy type of relationship. And once you've been on the road, you know, I don't trust anyone until I've been to Ohio with them. Nothing important about Ohio, but the theatres in Ohio, you know…you get pulled through it. But yeah, people you're on the road with…you form an interesting bond, and maybe not friendly, but still an interesting bond. I'm sure you feel the same way. Right?
S: Oh yeah. ‘Cause you're sweating with these people. You are working with these people…
A: You’re in Ohio with these people. There are a lot of theatres in Ohio.
S: There’s a lot of corn.
A: There are a surprising amount of theatres in Indiana. And I’ve performed in all states except Alaska. But I do have Puerto Rico.
S: Did you perform in Hawaii?
A: Yeah.
S: What?!
A: Yeah.
S: What show?
A: Two productions of Sesame Street Live! It’s amazing, they’ve got a great theater in Honolulu and another one in Maui.
S: What else did you do there?
A: Oh, I mean, all kinds of things: went snorkeling, went to the beach, went on hikes, went to a luau type of thing. Yeah. Like a dinner theatre type of performance with hula dancing. Hawaii’s awesome. I love it.
S: I can't believe you got to go there for work.
A: Yeah. It was a highlight. Definite highlight.
S: Was that a big part of your tour: just getting there and then getting back?
A: Yeah. 'Cause you, oh, that's true, here's another thing: when a road show has to go across the ocean you have to wait for a week for the set usually to be shipped, ‘cause it's usually too expensive to fly the gear. It needs to be shipped. And Sesame Street Live! had enough money that they would leapfrog sets so they could send one set early while you performed with the other set and then by the time you arrived there the other set would be there. But that's only for companies that have enough money to have multiple sets. Oh! When Hungry Caterpillar first went to Hong Kong it was too expensive to send the set over so they did this bad-ass thing where they sent the plans for how to build the set and they built us a set and then trashed it at the end. It was awesome.
S: Was it identical to the set you're used to?
A: Yes, of course.
S: Wow. That's so cool.
A: That is cool, right?
S: How has your work in this industry propelled you forward as an adult?
A: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We are all addicted to theatre. We're addicted to it and we just, at least this is my mindset: you just want to get the next job. It's not a healthy relationship, but it's the relationship I have. So I've never been like, ‘How does it…’ you know, I'm always just trying to get the next show, get gradually more glamorous and fabulous. So that's how I approach my (this is not advice) but that's how I approach it
S: Arlee, thank you for speaking with me today.
A: Well, thanks for having me!
S: Arlee, how can people find more of your work and reach out to you?
A: Well, you can reach out to me at PuppetsByArlee@gmail.com. You can find me at Puppets by Arlee on YouTube. And those are the preferred ways of you finding me. I want to end the list there. That's how to find me.
S: All right, everyone, go find her.
[Pipe and Drape theme plays.]
You can join the conversation about theatre for young audiences and find more Pipe and Drape content including photos, quotes, and TYA news on Instagram @PipeAndDrapeStories. And please be sure to rate and review Pipe and Drape wherever you listen to podcasts! Each star given or review submitted helps future listeners to find the show. Be sure to tune in every other Tuesday to hear theatre for young audiences creatives share their pipe and drape stories. Pipe and Drape is created and hosted by Stephen Fala and distributed by Anchor. Artwork for Pipe and Drape was created by Stephen Gordon and music was composed by Stephen Fala. Thank you for listening with me today.
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S: Then you ended up working at one of these dinner theatres?
A: Yeah! I worked at the Carousel Dinner Theatre. I was in a production ofCats. That was my favorite one that we did. And this is one of my favorite stories. Our stage manager came backstage and he said, “Everyone, please watch out. There is a pepperoni on downstage left.” And we didn't serve pepperoni at the dinner theatre, which means that somebody came to the dinner theatre with pepperonis and then threw one on the stage. And I tried not to…I did slip on it and I made a huge grease stain across the stage. But, more questions about my glamorous life as a theatre professional? And Hungry Caterpillar (‘cause it's all kids) for some reason the stage would get coated in raisins. There would…and I'm not sure why this is, either parents are bringing raisins as snacks for kids and then their kids are just like leaking raisins all over and it gets smeared…Like we had to clean raisins off…And the problem with raisins is when it gets smeared onto the floor, it doesn't look like raisin anymore. It looks like poo stains. So yeah, our poor stage manager she seriously had to mop after each like photo meet and greet because of the raisins. That's a problem. So watch out you young theater creators. Watch out for the raisins. You will have to clean those up.
S: Then you ended up working at one of these dinner theatres?
A: Yeah! I worked at the Carousel Dinner Theatre. I was in a production ofCats. That was my favorite one that we did. And this is one of my favorite stories. Our stage manager came backstage and he said, “Everyone, please watch out. There is a pepperoni on downstage left.” And we didn't serve pepperoni at the dinner theatre, which means that somebody came to the dinner theatre with pepperonis and then threw one on the stage. And I tried not to…I did slip on it and I made a huge grease stain across the stage. But, more questions about my glamorous life as a theatre professional? And Hungry Caterpillar (‘cause it's all kids) for some reason the stage would get coated in raisins. There would…and I'm not sure why this is, either parents are bringing raisins as snacks for kids and then their kids are just like leaking raisins all over and it gets smeared…Like we had to clean raisins off…And the problem with raisins is when it gets smeared onto the floor, it doesn't look like raisin anymore. It looks like poo stains. So yeah, our poor stage manager she seriously had to mop after each like photo meet and greet because of the raisins. That's a problem. So watch out you young theater creators. Watch out for the raisins. You will have to clean those up.
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Host: Stephen Fala
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