[Pipe and Drape theme plays.]
STEPHEN FALA: I’m Stephen Fala, and you’re listening to Pipe and Drape, the only podcast that spotlights the creative minds behind the theatre for young audiences industry. Every two weeks I sit down with a theatre professional to hear their stories about the audition, rehearsal, and development process of theatre for young audiences. Each of them have bridged the path from youth to adulthood while living in worlds created for children. My guests have mounted shows small enough to fit in a minivan to productions so big they travel by caravan. You can join the conversation by emailing PipeAndDrapeStories@gmail.com or messaging @PipeAndDrapeStories on Instagram.
This is Episode 5 of Pipe and Drape, and also it’s my birthday! [Out of tune “For He’s A Jolly Good Fellow” plays in the background] Rather than Venmoing me $4,000, you can give me the gift of a review and rating on Apple Podcasts. Your stars and comments do something with the algorithm that helps future listeners find the show. Your gift would help me share these pipe and drape stories with a wide range of aspiring industry members, seasoned professionals, and curious people. If you are unable to rate and review, please share a Pipe and Drape episode with your loved ones, liked ones, or okay ones. I’m so grateful that I can celebrate another trip around the sun by bringing these fresh perspectives to you. Birthday cake for all.
On this episode you’ll learn how my guest stretched into new roles while rehearsing Shakespeare alone in the woods and performing it in a barebones setting for a young audience. Yes. Performing Shakespeare for kids. Through broad, physical, vaudevillian style comedy and an intense course of study my guest opened a window into the world of Shakespeare. Thank you for listening with me today.
S: Today's guest is actor Matt McWilliams, a lover of Caravaggio whose recent credits include work with Theater Under the Stars, the Little Theater, and the Scioto Society. They appeared in numerous Shakespeare productions, including a tour of Romeo and Juliet with Madness Most Discreet Theatre Company (a group of which they are a founding member.) Their Philadelphia credits include MMF, which received rave reviews, puppeteering with a wild snowman in See Amid the Winter Snow, Eugene Ionesco’s The Lesson (another classic), covering productions at Arden Theatre Company, and a virtual production/experience Ignite with the Strides Collective. If you have not guessed already, Matt is incredibly cultured and well-read. Matt is my little and the Temple University chapter of Alpha Psi Omega and my former co-star in the Emmy Award-winning web-series One of the Guys. We are currently in my Washington Heights apartment discussing their experience touring A Midsummer Night's Dream. Matt, welcome.
MATT MCWILLIAMS: Stephen, thank you so much for having me. It is an honor to be here. This feels very natural for me, you know, sitting in front of a microphone with you—it's bringing back pleasant memories of our time together on One of the Guys.
S: In college, after we were done filming One of the Guys, we would go to a party with a jar of Nutella and lock ourselves in another person's bathroom and eat it in the bathtub. We had lots of fun back then. “Back then,” that wasn't that long ago.
M: No! We're still pretty fresh, we’re spring chickens.
S: We're still kids.
M: Yeah, we’re still kids. I mean, we're child sized adults. That's something.
S: That’s true, that’s true. That's how we ended up performing kids
M: That is true.
S: We look like kids.
M: Little boys.
S: Yeah. When you were an actual Real Live Child, what were that you were doing as a kid to entertain yourself?
M: When I was a kid, I was averse to all physical activity, but I loved to read. And for a long time, I actually thought I was going to be a writer. And I sort of stumbled into acting backwards just through Shakespeare, which I loved reading. And then I figured out that Shakespeare was a lot more interesting if you yelled at your friends instead of inside your own brain.
S: Do you remember seeing theatre as a child, either in your school or an arena spectacular?
M: I do. My family would go to Disney World once a year and so I saw a lot of Disney productions in that vein and also my middle school and elementary school. We did a lot of field trips to see theatre. One of the first things I saw live was actually a production of Twelfth Night and it was very dramatic. One of the actors had gotten sick right before the show and was recuperating in a back room somewhere. And his understudy went on and I was like, ‘[Gasp] The drama’s real.'
S: And then you actually had the pleasure of doing Twelfth Night eventually as an adult.
M: I did, I did, which was like a, a real sort of like full circle dream come true moment.
S: You ended up studying theatre.
M: Mm-hmm.
S: Was theater for young audiences a thing on your mind? Was that even covered in school?
M:Yeah, that's a great question. So my first ever time acting: I was sixteen and I was cast in my school's production of Les Mis (I was Student Number Three) and I kind of caught the bug. And I had…the summer before that I did a Shakespeare camp where you would study Shakespeare. And then at the end of the camp on the last day we performed small snippets of scenes and that's, I guess, kind of where I caught the acting bug. And then I decided to major in theatre in college. And my first professional job was the summer after I graduated high school doing a production of Rapunzel for a children's theatre. And so that was sort of like the first professional credit I had (that was with The Little Theatre.) And I went into my time at Temple University studying theatre with just like that little bit of TYA under my belt, but it never came up again until I graduated and started booking gigs professionally.
S: So then you had this interesting merge of two worlds where you're taking your little bit of TYA background and your experience with Rapunzel and your love for Shakespeare as a child. And these two things came together when you worked for Theater Under the Stars touring Midsummer and performing it in-house. So how did you come about doing this job?
M: Yeah, that's a great question. So my relationship with Theater Under the Stars actually started when I was like nineteen and I went to UPTAs to audition and I got a summer internship working for them. And then I went back to work with them two summers after that. And so that turned into this sort of like, I don't know, creative partnership. A lot of us would let go back year after year and A Midsummer Night's Dream was sort of like this flagship production that I interned. And then they brought it back a year after that. And a year after that, and it became this, that this touring sensation.
S: What was the rehearsal process for this like?
M: So, this is actually an interesting fact about the rehearsal process: one of the conceits of the show was that it was original practice style Shakespeare, which entailed sort of…we only learned our lines and the three words that cued us in, and the blocking was loosely structured. So we would know where to stand while we were saying our lines, but not what anyone else was doing, which they think is potentially how they did productions in Shakespeare's time when they were so pressed for time that they wouldn't gather everyone in one place and rehearse cohesively. So that's how we were rehearsing and that's what that process looked like. The expectation was you show up off-book and then you have…we had about twelve days to sort of block it, stage it, put all together. And we would just sort of like rehearse dusk till dawn. And I was living in a church at the time, like a little tiny church. And I would just like walk around in the woods at night, practicing my lines ‘cause I was so terrified. I learned two different role tracks and the audience would randomly choose every night who me and all the other actors were playing. So I learned the Hermia track and then I also learned Flute was my second one. And that would rotate night by night. But in the version we toured, I was just playing Flute. So that's what the kids saw.
S: A lot of people study different ways to get into a character. There are so many schools of acting I feel keep hearing about new ones and I’m like, ‘Who's that person?’ And Matt and I went to Temple University together and Temple is very Uta Hagen heavy. And so you're asking a lot of questions about character history and your relationship to people, places, and things. And so we have this…what’s called Uta’s Ten Questions which are the foundation of every character. And playing multiple characters…that can be a lot of things. So did you end up using your Uta training for Midsummer or did you go another route to get into the minds of all these people that you played?
M: Something I was introduced to through this, this job was Viewpoints. We played a lot with the idea of status and how that affected the way the characters moved in their own bodies and also how they interacted with each other. So if you were the highest status person on stage (if you were the king of the fairies) you carried yourself in a way, and if you were Puck you sort of were always aware of where Oberon was and if you could stand at full height and if you could like move at full speed when someone of a higher status was around you. And that was a really useful tool in terms of orienting myself with other actors. And then I also used a lot of Michael Chekhov—placing things in different centers in my body to distinguish characters as well as like an immediate way to tap into them differences.
S: It's interesting that you mentioned status because it has to do with everyone around you, but you're not rehearsing with anyone. You rehearsed the show without other actors and so you're making these characters with certain statuses without anyone else around. So what was it like the first time that you did this (whichever track you did) with the other actors?
M: That was probably the most exhilarating moment of my life was like stepping on this stage for the first time and looking at someone in the eye and hearing these words sent back to me after just being that voice in my head this whole time. It was so different than what I pictured. And I think the point of an original practice production like that is it forces these natural reactions out of you because you've literally never seen it happen before. And so it creates this crazy frenetic energy where you're just sort of like living moment-to-moment trying to hang on to all these things that are new and happening for the first time. And then, because we were playing different iterations of these characters every night, it's like every production was different in some way, which I think works for TYA ‘cause like the kids are getting this incredibly high-stakes version of the show and that really makes things clear. You have to know what you're saying because the other people who've never heard you say it before have to get it clearly as well.
S: What were some of the major differences between the version that you did at the theatre and the version that you did on the road?
M: On the road it was even more abridged than the in-house version and the in-house version we had a stage and everything was exactly there for us when we needed it. And when we were touring, we would sort of just take the most essential props and the pipes and drapes and put them in the van and drive him around. So everything was reduced: the runtime, the number of lines, the set, the props, it was all just a scaled down a little bit. Picture (for our pipes and drapes) the smallest, the most bare bones, teeny tiniest set. You can imagine. ‘Cause also inspired by Shakespeare's day, it was like you had a bench, you had a second bench and then you had some swords. And if you were lucky, there was a level to play with somewhere. So we would do pipes and then just one single curtain to make entrances and exits. And then the bulk of what we brought with us were costumes. And that was sort of how we would differentiate character. We were all running around, playing for different people. Like for instance, Flute was my primary character, but I was also three different fairies. I think I was Theseus, too (a role I would never play in real life.) A lot of what I would do on the road was just carry giant plastic bins full of hats and wings and wigs and makeup. And that was how we sold the show to the kids was with costume.
S: Had you experienced driving any sort of van around before with a set and other actors in it?
M: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I am not known as the world's best driver, and there were (it was a pretty small company) there were eight of us and I rarely did the driving. There were people who felt much safer, more comfortable being in control of the vehicle. And I was not one of those people. I prefer to be driven around, to be perfectly honest. So I would do a lot of lifting and someone else would do the driving, which is how I like it.
S: Strong bones.
M: Strong bones.
S: What are some of the tools that you and your colleagues had to make this material resonate with this younger audience who, maybe, this was their first experience with the Bard?
M: It was sort of two-pronged. We, as the actors had mandatory text that we were required to read and we had to bring our like two-part or giant Shakespeare lexicons with us. And if it wasn't clear to the director and the stage manager what we were saying, we would like have to go back, read our books, translate everything into modern English so we knew each thought as clear as possible. And then it was very broad physical comedy, like very sit-com style, slapstick interpretation of A Midsummer Night's Dream. When we were touring this production, we would do a couple things, like get the kids, you know, amped up jazz before the show, like gently let them into the world of Shakespeare. And so we would head out into the auditorium in our costumes and those of us who could play instruments would sing little madrigals or we would try to joke around with the kids in old timey “Ye Old Shakespeare.” And it obviously never went over well. But I do think that there…it breaks the ice a little bit. Even if no one engages with you, they're sort of braced for the experience of like, this is going to be a little bit funny and it's okay to laugh and it's okay to laugh at us. ‘Cause like, this is funny. It's funny stuff. Even when it's not supposed to be.
S: It's hard to interact with any audience and kids are so brutally honest or sometimes mean. If you're dealing with high schooler students, it's tricky.
M: Yes. They're old enough to know what they're saying, so when they say something you're like, ‘Oh, they really mean that.’ Also in the style of Shakespeare's day, we encourage the kids to boo characters when someone was doing something mean or chime-in when they had a thought about it while it was happening. So it was a bit like doing stand-up or something. You're up there doing your work and someone's heckling you while it's happening. So it was fun to stop and occasionally be like, [Vaudeville impression] ‘Yeah, kid, you're right!’ like just acknowledge what they were saying was a valid interpretation, we loved hearing it. And I remember one of the longest, most uncomfortable stage pauses I've ever heard was a scene where we were all on stage and someone forgot a line and it felt like we were all just standing there silently for fifteen full seconds. And I don't even remember how it ended. I think I blacked out, but it was the most uncomfortable moment of my life on stage. I was like, ‘There's no worse feeling than this.’ I was like, ‘Is this my fault? Is it all of our faults?’ It was just absolutely terrible.
S: Did you have an extended talkback with the students after the show where you got to discuss the process with them?
M: We did. We would do a question and answer after the show and a lot of the questions would be related to how we made sort of the gags happen. But I remember very specifically, one of the most, I think one of the most profound things I've ever heard was an older student saying that Shakespeare's words sounded the same coming out of my mouth when I was playing Hermia than it did when they'd seen it before and a woman had played that part and they were like, ‘Wow, that sounds just the same. Everyone should do it this way.’ And this was such an incredibly enlightened and moving thing to hear a child say, and I was like, ‘Wow, this is why this is so important because interpretations like this can reach people before they go out into the world and make their own creative choices and shape their lives in their own way.’ You know, Shakespeare is one of those things that we introduced to children in such a belabored way. I don't know about you, but the first time I learned about it was in school as if it was literature. And I had this fear when I took this job I was like, ‘Do I even know what I'm saying? Will the kids understand what I'm saying if I don't even get it?’ And I learned that the way to reach people with Shakespeare is to perform it like this. It's vital and it's worth saying, and that it can be adapted in new and unexpected ways and there's still meaning there, there's still meat. And I guess this is me popping up my soap box: but show kids Shakespeare, take them to the show, show them the movie, have them listen to it on a podcast instead of making them read it. I think all of the wisdom in Shakespeare would reach kids a lot more effectively that way. So teachers out there: take your kids to the show.
S: Do you have any recommendations for Shakespeare that should be watched or listened to?
M: That's a great question. There's a book (I believe we've talked about this) How to Teach Your Children Shakespeare, that as an actor I read and learned a lot about. And then in terms of like productions to watch, I would say (especially right now) you can watch the National Theater’s website. You can rent productions of their shows and that's the highest quality Shakespeare you can access. And it's so fun. So that's what I would say.
S: Did you have any other duties besides loading in your own set, driving your van, and communicating with the audience before the show and after?
M: Yes, I was the Wig Mistress. I was in charge of maintaining the integrity of our wigs. So every night (and there were so many wigs, I've never worn more wigs in my life. What a treat) so every time we would take down the show and we would drive it back to the theatre, I would put them on their stands, I would tidy, brush, take out the hair ties, whatever needed to be done, wrap them up, and make sure that they looked show-ready for the next time we would have to take them back out. It was like tending to a garden of artificial hair, which was a satisfying experience. I'm not a gardener, but I do think I could be a Wig Mistress in this lifetime or the next.
S: Is that on your Special Skills now?
M: It's actually not because no one told me what to do. They were like, ‘Here's the shape of how you maintain these wigs,’ and I was just sort of free-balling it. So I don't know that I'm professional, but could I be? With some training I think it could.
S: And anything fun offstage?
M: I was living in a church. And it was…we developed like a sense of comradery and also sort of like every day I felt like I was trespassing on a place I really shouldn't be. So I remember staying up late at night and we were all so nervous about this process of doing original practice Shakespeare, and there's something so profound and beautiful just sitting around saying beautiful words to people who also like love hearing those things. I think that's where I developed the ability to really digest and like process Shakespeare was just this endless back and forth with other people who wanted it to to mean something when they were speaking it. I kind of fell in love with Shakespeare doing this. He's my boyfriend.
S: A summer of love.
M: A summer of love.
S: How did your work performing Shakespeare for a young audience propel you forward either as an artist or as a young adult?
M: Yeah. That is (looking back on this time I would say it's) probably one of the most formative things I've done in a training sense, but also because it gave me the clarity that has become like a, sort of like a guiding light for me in my career. I really only want to be putting things out into the world that I believe have value. And for me that is representation on stage. And I'm particularly passionate about re-claiming classical stories and like giving those to minority voices and minority populations. And I did my own very small version of that with these Shakespeare shows. But that was where I saw firsthand that children internalize that. And if you normalize a production of Shakespeare where race and gender don't necessarily mean anything in terms of what you're seeing, it's that anyone can do anything. That is lasting change. That's how actors can like shape the world. And that's really the power of art as I see it. And that's what I want to put into the world.
S: Matt, thank you for speaking with me today. How can our listeners find you?
M: My website is mattmcwilliamsactor.com. You can also find me on Instagram @timoteecalamari. •~*Should I spell that out?~*•
S: Be sure to check out more of Matt’s comedy and pipe and drape story on Instagram.
[Pipe and Drape theme plays.]
You can also find Matt studying a good book or glass of wine at Book Club on the Lower East Side. You can join the conversation about theatre for young audiences and find more Pipe and Drape content including photos, quotes, and TYA news on Instagram @PipeAndDrapeStories. And please be sure to rate and review Pipe and Drape wherever you listen to podcasts! Each star given or review submitted helps future listeners to find the show. Be sure to tune in every other Tuesday to hear theatre for young audiences creatives share their pipe and drape stories. Pipe and Drape is created and hosted by Stephen Fala and distributed by Anchor. Artwork for Pipe and Drape was created by Stephen Gordon and music was composed by Stephen Fala. Thank you for listening with me today.
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INSTAGRAM: @PipeAndDrapeStories
Host: Stephen Fala
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