STEPHEN FALA: I’m Stephen Fala, and you’re listening to Pipe and Drape, the only podcast that spotlights the creative minds behind the Theatre For Young Audiences industry. Every two weeks I sit down with a theatre professional to hear their pipe and drape stories. These are the stories that take place behind the pipe and drape scenery in the theatre for young audiences world. Theatre for young audiences (or TYA) inspires young minds by entertaining audiences with topics big and little in any and every setting. My guests have mounted shows small enough to fit in a minivan to productions so big they travel by caravan, and on this podcast we discuss the ways theatre for young audiences helps all artists and theatregoers make this world a better place. Thank you for listening with me today.
STEPHEN: Hi everyone, I’m speaking with First Stage Artistic Director Jeff Frank. Jeff joined First Stage as the Education/Academy Director in 1996, and in 2023 he is celebrating his twentieth year as the theatre’s Artistic Director. First Stage is the nation’s largest theater training program for young people, and has produced titles that have appeared on stages around the country. Under Jeff’s leadership, First stage has adapted TYA versions of Gathering Blue, Tom Sawyer, The Wiz, Peter Pan and Wendy, and most recently Arthur & Friends Make a Musical! One of their biggest hits is the stage adaptation of the 1964 Rankin/Bass Christmas special Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer which we are going to discuss today. Jeff, welcome. Thank you for joining me today.
JEFF FRANK: Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks for for asking me to speak.
STEPHEN: Of course, yeah. In just reading BroadwayWorld, Rudolph has appeared all over the country, various theatres have done this production. There's the Rigby Tour that that has gone out for a number of years… What were the steps in creating this stage adaptation that your theatre has done several times over the last decade? [Laughter.]
JEFF: Well way back in the day, I think 2010, 2011 I think my friend Michael Bobbitt worked with the folks at Character Arts to do an early adaptation. Right. But he had a really small space and there were it wasn't exactly what Character Arts was looking for. I went and saw the production. It was a lot of fun and things, but the limitations of being in a hundred seat housework pretty vivid there. So but Michael got me in touch with the folks at Character Arts Jonathan Flom and Aaron Burakoff. And we had just done that adaptation of Peter Pan and Wendy, our space is five hundred-seat extreme thrust space. No fly space, no way to fly anything. And, you know, we were gonna do Peter Pan and Wendy, and of course, Peter Pan has to fly, right? So my wife Sarah Hunt Frank actually designed the set for us, basically created this black void where pieces would come and go in elements. And we dove into Japanese theatre techniques from Japanese kabuki theatre. There's kuroko, it's sort of like a running crew but typically they're dressed entirely in black head to toe. And they'll play the role of animals, they’ll puppeteer things, they'll move elements and other sort of things. And similarly, in noh theatre, they're called kōkens, which is more the term that we used throughout. So we used those techniques to create all of the stage magic in Peter Pan and Wendy. Right? So all of these actors dressed in black from head to toe, were manipulating elements, set pieces of things, lifting actors up, moving them through, moving, you know, a cannonball puppet through the space, puppeteering the giant crocodile, puppeteering Tinkerbell, right? And it was really sort of a magical three dimensional approach to storytelling in our space that our audiences were really excited about. It was unexpected and new and fresh, and the audiences came with us on our journey. And that's something that I'm always after, is trying to create theatre that asks the audience to lean in and to join us, right? And to bring their imaginations to the process. So that was the preface, right? [Laughter.] So I got a hold of the, the folks from Rudolph, and they wanted…their version was, you know, the big, nationwide tour, and playing just the grandest of venues in a large proscenium house. And I told 'em about our theatre space, and they're like, ‘What are you gonna do, Jeff? How, how are you gonna make the show work?’ And I said, ‘Well, we just finished this Peter Pan and Wendy,’ and I sent them some images and some clips from that. And I said, you know, ’In this case, we would put them all in white rather than in black. And we're creating this field of white that is Christmas Town and the surrounding areas and not masked, but we wanna see their faces.’ And I said with that, I can not only fly Rudolph, but we can create a feeling of the homespun, handcrafted feeling of the original piece. Right? So, you know, the show starts with all of the trees and snow banks, everything can move and slide into place. We have a title tree that turns around and shows things. We have the woodland creatures that are puppeteered in. So everything is brought and you create this living vital environment in which the story can take place. And they bought it just enough to let me try. [Laughter.] And Bob Penola did the adaptation which is really pretty accurate to the film special. And we made a couple little additions here and there. One of them trying to humanize Donner a little bit, so you may not know it, but there's a scene where you know…it’s just a bit of narration in the TV special where Donner raised Rudolph's essentially, right? But we actually created a scene where there's a little bit of interaction and them playing and Donner training his son and them working together before the first time they see the Bumble. So it was an important moment to see that, that despite Donner's shortcomings, there was a love and a relationship that's there constantly. But we put in all this work, Brandon Kirkham was so critical in every aspect. He designed, set costumes, puppets for the show, and our production staff worked with the folks at Character Arts to make the finest details be as accurate as possible. [Laughter.] I remember specifically getting a note about the spots on the Spotted Elephant puppet. You know, they were…and then the note was literally like, ‘Please refer to Pantone color such and such and such for the appropriate colored spots for…’ for that, right? But working on creating the reindeer the silhouette, the look, the feel of those, of not just the reindeer, but of the stop motion special was an amazing work from a design perspective by Brandon, but also our shops who created these amazing headpieces, these thigh pieces and legs and, and hooves. It's amazing the amount of research and sort of trial and error that we had to go through to get things right that, you know, could fit, still evoke the right silhouette, but allow actors to move.
STEPHEN: In the development process, how long did it take from that first initial conversation of, ‘Hey, we would like to do this,’ to that first preview? Because often, you know, theatres are planning their seasons of shows that already exist, like a year, year and a half in advance.
JEFF: Yeah.
STEPHEN: But this, you're building something new. So what was that process like of bringing in the other creatives to get all of this approved?
JEFF: If I'm remembering correctly, it was an eighteen-month to two-year process to sort of go through everything from that initial negotiation to sorting out contracts, to sorting out what our responsibilities were in terms of getting everything approved, right? So we had to go through that process of every element of the design being approved, our marketing images being approved. Character Arts is basically responsible for the Rudolph brand in all things Rudolph. So they wanted to make sure that that brand continued to be represented in the most positive way. So that was, you know, just taking that extra step to work with them through every phase of it. But they, I mean, again, they were really, really great and super supportive. And we were [Laughter.] all so thankful when they arrived. You know, we were able to finally share it with them that they were so excited about what we had done and excited by the audience's reaction, right? That it felt right, what we had done, the choices that we had made, the fact that we did create this world of these elements and pieces in the puppets and everything, speaking with an authenticity to the original special, but also with the fact that First Stage, we also do age appropriate casting. So when you see Rudolph, you're seeing an actual young person in that reindeer costume. But also the…again, the authenticity of that performance and the depth of emotion that's added on top of the historical, you know the nostalgia of this piece. You have an immediacy of the here and now of these young people and their voices, and the two challenges that are there for Rudolph and, and Hermey, and how they find each other and, and, and begin to celebrate who there are and who they're meant to be.
STEPHEN: I think it's so fascinating that you were able to take this forty seven minute special and then expand it to be like seventy minutes, which often in theatre for young audiences, you're shrinking something down to fit it within like a shorter time period. But here you had this opportunity to broaden things. How did you decide where you could expand upon certain things? Like you mentioned the the Donner plot in making him more like human and relatable. Were there other aspects where you maybe in just like watching, being a fan of the, the movie were like, ‘Oh, I wanna build on this, this,’ or were there in working with like Robert or Timothy, were they like, ‘Oh, I have this idea. Let's make this something bigger. Let's make this something different.’
JEFF: Yeah. I think any and all of those things, right? Timothy Splain, who did all the arrangements and music directed the original productions, was really instrumental, pardon the pun [Laughter.] in terms of making the voice happen, thinking about the timing of the transitions, the music that was there, what we could expand into. And you know frankly, the show that we did in 2012 didn't contain everything that the show does now. So even for us, it was an evolution of where it could go. So things like when Santa Claus gets your letter for the elves was not in the original production, right? That became a way to expand it later on as we went through and prepared for the national tour to go out looking at different sort of things. So it was a lot of Bob just thinking, you know, Bob always had the grander vision of the scope of the show. So, you know, on the national tour that Rudolph flies, right? With rigging and other sort of things. And there's a big, big curtain and other sort of things. And we learned too from year to year as we went through in terms of how it could develop in scope. And so it's trying to honor what was there, but also a lot of the other of the music that we could put in and finding ways to expand that made sense yet, right. That we weren't throwing something in that still wasn't gonna be a part of the arc, if that makes sense.
STEPHEN: Absolutely. In the development process using puppetry and having both kids and adults involved in the show, were you also training your cast to use puppets like maybe for the first time, especially since, you know, First Stage has such a large educational component?
JEFF: Yes. Yes. We went through a lot of training. I've always had an interest in puppetry through things. But Aretta Baumgartner from the Atlanta Center for Puppetry Arts came up and did a couple of times to do different workshops for us just to talk about that and the intention behind that, and the focus on that, and providing opportunities for our young people and our adult actors. And the fact that we, again, we had explored some of those elements with Peter Pan and Wendy and actually The Neverending Story, even the season before where there were some similar elements, our audiences began to understand that work more, and the young people began to grow in their appreciation of the discipline, right? The physical challenge, the focus that it takes, right? And having conversations, it's a little easier to understand when you're puppeteering Charlie in the Box, that that puppet has a life and an intention, and you're sending your energy through that, that thing, right? When you talk to them about, okay, you are puppeteering this tree, right? [Laughter.] You need to be subservient to the thing that you're moving. This is not about drawing attention to yourself. It's about you giving the piece life to move, whether that's a snowflake drifting through, right, or a bird, or this bank of snow moving with the appropriate energy that makes sense. So there's a lot of physical discipline and focus, and frankly, one of my favorite things is the power of stillness, right? Explaining to them that you're going to be there and move that thing, and then you are just still, until the next time that thing needs to move, right? And you're telling a twelve-year-old that like, stillness is not necessarily anybody's forte, but when you're, you know, between the ages of eight and fourteen, it becomes even harder. But that's the magic, too, is those folks will create a life, move something, and then in stillness they become part of the environment, and then they go to move again. And the audience is surprised that, ‘Oh, that thing is moving again. Who…how did that happen?’ So, I love the discipline that it requires and demands and the focus that it takes to help tell the story, to help illuminate it as cleanly as possible. I do think, you know, early on in the development of the piece, too, where, you know we'd gotten the script, I was working with Robert Penola on that, but it was also trying to explore what could be possible, right? So we had some boot camps ahead of the first rehearsals where it was about how do we puppeteer, what are these things? What could we use for the storm of the century? What are the options for flying young people, right? What are the lifts where we feel safe, they feel safe, right? And we can control and create visual interest and variety throughout so that all of our flights aren't the same, that there is a variety and a vision for that. So that was I think a really useful time and to involve young people in those projects to build awareness, but also to get their feedback about what they like, what they responded to, what they saw, what they felt comfortable with. And I think we're always at our best, whenever we're developing a new play or a new work, a new concept involving our young people in that process is really critically important. We're set to workshop a new play coming up in a couple of weeks called The Forgotten Girl based on a book by India Hill Brown, by the adaptation by Idris Goodwin. But it's a ghost story. So there are some, some interesting challenges within that, that, so we'll be working on the script, but also the director, Jon Royal, will be, I think, playing around with some, some staging or conceptual thoughts to try and get feedback from our public audiences that we invite in. It was interesting too, 'cause it's just a reading, right? [Laughter.] But it's free. And I just found out the other day, like, we were completely sold out and we're two weeks away from it. We haven't even started rehearsals, you know, so we had to add another performance just to like, get folks in, which is great. You know, it says something about the power of the community starting to really recognize the, the importance of new work and development and, and things, and the fact that they can and should be a part of the creative process with us.
STEPHEN: Yeah, absolutely. I think getting that audience reaction, audience energy is so, so important to that development process. And that’s, in New York, why we have previews, why we do out of town tryouts. And so it's, it's so important to hear that it's the exact same thing with a theatre for young audiences production as well.
JEFF: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We continue to learn a lot. It's funny 'cause I had a John Rando from Broadway came out and directed The Happy Elf, the Harry Connick piece for us years ago. And oddly enough, I was artistic director, but also his assistant director for the show, right. But we got to opening and he turned to me and he is like, ‘Hey, Jeff, I'm sorry. You know?’ And I'm like, ‘What?’ and, ‘the show's great.’ He's like, ‘Yeah, I know, but like, this is typically when I do my work, right? The show's gotten in front of an audience, and then I spend, you know, a month fixing it.’ I'm like, ‘Yeah, that must be nice.’ Because no, we get a preview performance [Laughter.] and the next day we're opening. That's it. Right. You know? So it is just, you know, a difference between regional theatre and other sort of things. You, you embrace the danger of it. Right. But also the excitement of that. And you know, Rob Goodman, who was our founder, the one thing that he really drove home to me is as long as you have time, you know, in that process, just keep working to make the play better. You know, there are times you might have a thought of like, ‘Well, this is just as good as it's gonna be, right. So I'm gonna let go.’ Right. but keeping your mind open and keeping listening and working with the folks and, and leading and, you know, I share with young people all the time, you're never gonna have a perfect performance. You just never, right. But I think it was Vince Lombardi used to say by pursuing perfection, you just might catch excellence. Right. And I love that, you know that drive. And especially when you do something like Rudolph where it takes so much concentration, so much focus, so much energy just trying to show up each day and, and give it your best. Because you've already put in so much of the work, have fun now, getting after it each time you do it. And the audience should feel that joy as well.
STEPHEN: And when you were developing the piece, I know this this last year's production, you had the silver cast and the gold cast, and they would alternate performances.
JEFF: Mm-Hmm.
STEPHEN: Were you, when you first created it, just working with one cast of child actors? Or were you still alternating kids as you were figuring out what this piece was and how it breathes on stage?
JEFF: Sure. Yeah. Well, at First Stage we always double cast our shows because of the young performers so that they don't miss as much school. So during that four to six week run, you know, doing daytime performances for school groups, they would miss every other day of school, right? So that's sort of that balance. But it presents challenges and opportunities because you're, you have to teach both casts, right? They've gotta be doing the same blocking, especially with something like this where it demanded a specific precision. Like, these things need to be moved at this time, at this pace in this pattern to get to this position, otherwise there's danger. [Laughter.] Because there just…practically it’s like…when you're puppeteering the Bumble, right? Which is a giant backpack puppet with one person inside and people operating each of the arms, it has to be carefully orchestrated and put together in that way so that we can replicate. But those young people also learn from watching each other where they need to grow, what they need to do the, the arc of the character, we do a lot of discussions together. And they each have their own interpretation, but wind up discovering things that they might not have alone by that opportunity to see one another. So it's really it's worth the layers of complication in terms of what the payoff is, I think, for me in the end.
STEPHEN: And how long is the rehearsal process, since you have multiple casts?
JEFF: It had been four weeks to go through things. We've now moved to this last time we did it, we shifted to a five week rehearsal process because we've shifted to working five days a week instead of six. So now our rehearsal is Wednesday through Sunday. So that's typically…we have both casts on a Wednesday, one cast Thursday, one cast Friday, and then the cast split the Saturday and Sunday rehearsal times. But it works. What we also have what we call a young performer weekend, which is ahead of that five week period, we bring in just the young performers for two days to sort of do a bootcamp where we do focus a lot on movement and that movement vocabulary, learning the music, sort of setting the frame so that they're really ready to go and wind up being ahead of the adults at the start of rehearsal, which is always fun.
STEPHEN: I love that. I just did a show where we had a group of four kids, like two that alternated, where they came in completely off book, had watched all the choreography videos online. I'm like, ‘Wow, you guys are all ahead of us.’
JEFF: Right. It's like, come on, adults, you better step up. [Laughter.]
STEPHEN: Yeah. And so do you have kids that return, like for shows each year?
JEFF: Well, we sort of…pre-COVID Times we'd have six hundred, seven hundred kids audition for a season. And then there are young people that tend to appear season after season for a period of time, but we really limit them to typically one show a season. Because again, we we want them to find a balance between the work right: on stage and in their actual work of being a young person growing up. So we have classes and programming that happens all year that they can take. But in terms of missing school and other things, we really try to limit it to just one show, which ultimately makes the casting an interesting process for me 'cause I don't direct all the shows, so I have to work with the directors, too. And we'll all sit down and we'll all have discussions about, ‘Well, I want this kid,’ 'But I want that kid,’ or ‘Where's the best place for them to be?’ And we have to go through all of that process to put things together.
STEPHEN: And I guess with this show in particular, since it's had such a grand life after it's first premiere with you, what was that process like, taking material that was written for kids to perform and then changing it, like either the vocals or some of the staging so that adults could step into those roles for the tour in later productions?
JEFF: Sure. I mean, I mean, nothing really, you know, from our perspective, the script didn't really change. Right. I don't think even keys of music changed. Maybe that's a part of it. I wasn't involved with the national tour other than initial advising in sort of going through the things and then, you know, being invited to go see at Madison Square Garden years ago and made its first appearance there. And from our perspective, nothing ever needs to be simplified for our young people to do the, the work. Generally, I have a lot of young folks that are twelve and have been taking classes for seven years, you know? So they're ready to step up. And again, we just really believe here at First Stage and, and the depth of the connection that young people feel when they see kids like themselves on stage. And that's nothing against theatres that use adults. And especially with the national tour, it's really hard, I think, to tour with young people and make that demand of them on their lives. So, yeah. I don't know that I answered your question, but...[Laughter.]
STEPHEN: No, you did. And that's something…I think it's so admirable that you are so passionate about casting kids as kids and adults as adults in all of your productions. 'Cause you're right, it's so important for kids to see themselves on stage. I did Upper Darby Summer Stage in Philadelphia where you have high schoolers and middle schoolers playing all the parts, and then kids were coming to see the shows that are for them. And it's people their age on stage, and it's like, ‘Oh, wow, I really connect with this.’ ‘Cause a lot of times it's adults. It's like like me, a thirty year old man with a backwards hat on playing a kid. And so to give that those kids an opportunity to do this alongside Equity adult professionals is so, so cool. Has that always for first stage been been the case?
JEFF: Yeah. Yeah. From, from the jump. Our founder, Rob Goodman came from…he was the production stage manager at the Milwaukee Rep. And when The Rep moved spaces, there was a void in the Marcus Center for the Performing Arts where we are now. And they wanted to start a children's theatre and asked Rob about doing that. And Rob didn't know anything about it. He was at theatre person first, right? But to his credit, he was just like, you know, if we were going to put a young person in the show at The Rep, it would be a young person, so we started with that in mind and then realized that in order for those young people to be ready socially and artistically that he needed to start a theatre academy. So our theatre academy started I think five years after First Stage started [was] started by Tyne Turner and Michael Warren, who helped lay the framework for this teaching life skills through stage skills foundational program, which does help young people better understand themselves and the world around them, while also preparing them to be on stage and to have those sort of experiences. And, you know, they grow so much in terms of self-confidence and creative thinking and problem solving and empathy through the classes. But when they're in a show working with those professionals, the leaps forward are exponential. And the reciprocity of what the young people give the adults is also super cool because so many…for a lot of adults, acting has become a job again. They forgot, like when they started, the passion and the vocational nature of how they felt, and then they walk into rehearsal where these young people are there and so present and so eager and listening to every moment and ready to go. And a lot of folks just rediscover the magic of what it means to be a part of telling a story to a community. And with that sense of community alive in them as well.
STEPHEN: I feel that as doing this last show, like having kids in the room being like, right, I remember why I love this, why I went down this path. Do you have kids go through the program and then they will return as adult professionals to work with you?
JEFF: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s a lot of the city of Milwaukee, a lot of the adults in our community that are acting are our folks that came through our academy program, went to school and came back and are contributing in that way, and some designers as well. Jazmin [Aurora Medina] was in our production of Esperanza Rising back in the day as part of a mariachi group. Right. She hadn't done any theater before, but we worked with my friend Dinorah Márquez at the Latino Arts Strings Program. And some adults and some young people were a part of that production. Jazmin was sort of inspired by that and went to school and is now a costume designer and real established in Milwaukee and now and throughout the country doing a number of things. But yeah, I think every season we've got a number of actors including…I just did a production of The Hobbit where two of my understudies were former academy kids who've just gotten out of school and both had to go on in the show, [Laughter,] given these COVID Times and acquitted themselves very well. So, [Laughter.] Tim Linn, who has been the only person other than me inside the Bumble suit ever from our production. But Tim is an academy kid grown up, right. But an amazing athletic specimen [Laughter.] So what he's able to do in terms of all of the flights that Rudolph takes in terms of being a key person to lift up and move, and his dexterity inside this giant twelve-foot backpack bumble puppet is really been a remarkable gift. And I'm so thankful for, for their input. And then from there, you create an atmosphere as you're exploring ways to make all of these physical moments manifest where everybody realizes everybody's ideas are important. Right. Like, a great idea can come from, you know, the eight year old playing one of the hells. Right. and finding through things. And I feel like First Stage and our commitment to those young people and the training program have really changed the fabric of the theatre community here in Milwaukee. And that's because I think all the theatres in town feel comfortable using young people in their productions 'cause they know that there are young people that are ready to have that experience and to come in and be held to a high expectation to act professional. And again, those folks who come out and go to school and come back and wanna make theatre and craft theatre and change in their own communities. So I think that's, you know, it makes me feel really old at times. [Laughter.] When I come back and I'm like, 'Yeah, Tim, you were in I think the second or third show I ever directed,’ he was, you know, this production of Tom Sawyer. He was Tom way back then, and now he is, you know, has a family and kids…
STEPHEN: But that's so great that like you've built this community of artists and like people that will come back 'cause they love it and they have this awesome artistic home to return to.
JEFF: Yeah. Well, and it becomes an extension of who we are, too, right? Because we're helping…we talk a lot about helping every person take their next step forward as an artist and as a human. And so also being a place where we're able to help emerging artists, right? So we're, we're more likely, I think, to take a chance on a young designer or a director or other sort of things, and knowing that we're in an environment that is hopefully gonna help them nurture and help them grow. And knowing that we're learning too from new minds and new voices coming into our space. So it's really gratifying to have the support of the board to take those sort of risks and things, but it also seems like a natural extension just of who we are and what we've been doing.
STEPHEN: Do you find that most of your adults that come into work on your season, are they mostly from the Milwaukee area or do you put out a national search for your casts?
JEFF: We just did our national Equity sort of saying ‘here's the shows that we're doing’ sort of casting call and things, but the majority of the folks that we cast are local. I think this season I'll have twenty five adult roles over the course of the season, and probably outta that four to five might wind up being outta town. I mean, we'll go where we need to go to cast the shows effectively. But Milwaukee has a really rich environment for actors. And that gets better and better with each passing year. So we'll see if we can make it through the challenges of, of being a, a smaller big city [Laughter.], I guess, for lack of a better term, and the fact that a lot of theatre companies, a lot of folks have tightened, right? So are there gonna be as many opportunities for folks moving forward that justifies them staying here in Milwaukee? The other good thing about Milwaukee is, you know, we’re an our in change north of Chicago, so folks still have access to there for you know, film and TV work and some other theatre work. So there are a bunch of folks that sort of settle in between too, so they can do either. So it's a rich environment.
STEPHEN: Yeah. I've only been to Milwaukee, I think once but I was like, ‘Oh, wow, this is really nice out here.’
JEFF: It’s amazingly underrated, right? I mean, Milwaukee is thought of as a blue collar city, but the arts scene is incredible. I mean, we have the symphony, the ballet, the art museum, the Milwaukee Rep, the Skylight, Florentine Opera. I mean, there's just some world class art and theatre happening in town and I’d love for folks to know more about it. But I also like our little slice of the world, too [Laughter.] you know, we have all the wonders of big cities, but a lot less traffic. [Laughter.]
STEPHEN: So I've been wondering, did Jules Bass and Arthur Rankin come see your production of the show?
JEFF: No. One of the music folks from the original production, Maury Laws lives up in Appleton. So he came down to see it, I think the second year we did it, which was a real honor just to hang with him and for him to sort of feel the joy again, and knew of that process of creation and to sharing that with him was, was pretty special.
STEPHEN: Do you remember your first time watching Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer?
JEFF: I don't know that I can remember specifically, right? But I was a pretty emotional kid. So I think I, you know, a vague recollection of watching and, and like getting pretty weepy, [Laughter.], you know? Yeah. When things don't go right for Rudolph and he's out there alone. You know, and things trying to find his way. Again, the artistry, even as a young person, I think I appreciated what kind of effort it must have taken to craft that show right moment by moment and to build it in a different way that seems so much harder than an animated version in a different sort of way.
STEPHEN: Were you a fan of, there there other specials as well? The Year Without a Santa Claus, Santa Claus is Coming to Town?
JEFF: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think everybody always sort of agrees on that Heat Miser song, [Laughter.] those sort of things. Yeah. I mean, it was a staple. I mean, it was a different time, too, right? You know, you would gather right around the TV or it was a family moment because it was gonna be on the one time. You had to be there and if you missed it, you missed it. And I think that's a part of a little bit of that again, the sense of live theatre, even when we're running for a while being a part of family traditions again is such a blessing. I think with, with Rudolph and watching generations come together, you know, mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, whatever it is, kids all coming and experiencing something and the immediacy of that live experience and the power of that, and watching them watch the show and watching them just start talking about everything as they leave and conversations that have been sparked in a different way. The COVID crisis sort of pushed everybody back into their bunkers in a different sort of way, so the joy of coming back to live theatre and experiencing that and understanding again, the power of that and how it's different than sitting at home and watching the latest Netflix sensation or whatever. There's a different sort of vibe and feeling. That's, to me, the best gif that I receive is watching those families share something powerful together and, and reconnecting with one another because of the shared experience.
STEPHEN: After each performance did you have like a talk back where kids could see like, ‘Oh, this is how the puppet works, this is how we do this effect?’
JEFF: Yeah, we always, it's always the better part of…w always have say a five to seven minute talk back where we just sort of try to demystify things and welcome them behind the scenes. And you get a lot of, ‘Who was in the Bumble, like how did the Bumble work?’ So Tim would be able to explain, that was the one thing we we wound up, Tim was so good at it, the early years ‘I felt like Bumble needs a curtain call.’ So the show ends and we're in the middle of bows and things and and we're singing “Rudolph Red-Nosed Reindeer” and Tim has just enough time to go back out, get re-Bumbled, and then he comes in, we actually recorded him singing then, you know [Jeff sings the line “Rudolph with his nose so bright” in the gruff, mumbly voice of Bumble.] [Laughter.] So we have the Bumble sort of sing a featured moment in the curtain call, which is super fun, always a fan favorite with the young people though.
STEPHEN: Do you license out your puppets and some of your scenic elements to other theatres doing the show? Or do you pretty much keep it in house?
JEFF: We haven't, you know, and a part of that I think is just because we do go back to it, you know we did this last year and we'll go back the Christmas of ‘24, which will be the, you know, the 60th anniversary. So that'll be a big time for us to go back to it. And you know, we're constantly redoing like last time through, we had a re-skin, all of the puppets, go through or do all of that stuff, right? So Nikki Kulas, our props master did a lot of work just to like get things ready to go the next time. So it's sort of…we’re constantly revisiting and making sure everything is up to snuff. She rebuilt Moonracer whose wings had gotten a little tired, you know, [Laughter.], all the little things that you have to do. So we've invested so much in this creation, I think we're hesitant to let anybody else use the thing specifically, you know?
STEPHEN: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I totally understand. [Laughter.]
JEFF: We did the show, we created the designs, all of the shows afterward really sort of based on that initial concept and the design approach that Brandon had done. And now that the show is licensed through MTI, like, there's no way that Character Arts can have oversight over every production, right? So from here on in, people are gonna find vastly different solutions to bringing this story to life, right? So occasionally I'm sent pictures of like, ‘Whoa, check out these reindeer sort of thing,’ you know, but I'm not judging, right? It's, it's like…no, I, I think it's great to have freedom for other theatres to create a vision, but hopefully in a way that at its core honors the story and that original production, you know, the, the original TV special. And I think as long as you've got the heart of, as I always say, that handcrafted quality, you know, something made with love and care to share that story and to share the telling of it in, in that sort of way, then I think you're gonna be fine. Well, thank you, Stephen. I really, really appreciate your interest and, and support and it's been a fun journey and I look forward to Rudolph every time I've directed it every time for us, but once when Matt [Daniels] did it I'm looking forward to doing it again.
STEPHEN: Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing…I mean, I'm already seeing it popping up in other people's seasons. I'm excited for you all to remount it in 2024 for the 60th. In the meantime, how can our listeners see what First Stage is up to?
JEFF: Sure. Our website is just firststage.org, so you can check out some big fun musicals happening.
STEPHEN: First Stage’s website and Instagram (@first.stage) are linked in the notes for this episode. You can see a production of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer at a theatre near you this holiday season! Ticketing information for the national tour and regional productions happening in 2023 is also linked in the notes for this episode. This week’s Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party is “The Happy Elf” from the album Harry For the Holidays by Harry Connick, Jr. This song inspired the 2005 holiday special of the same name and the subsequent musical that premiered at First Stage in 2008.
I’d like to thank my season three guests Deborah Wicks La Puma, Ali Caiazzo, Rebecca Russell, Leah Senseney, Robert Hooghkirk, Johanna Gorman-Baer, Jon Royal, Kevin Del Aguila, Mason Huse, and Jeff Frank for sharing their pipe and drape stories with me, and I’d like to thank you, listeners, for tuning in to these conversations! Between now and your next listen to this podcast, I invite you to rock out to the collection of TYA songs in the playlist “Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party” that I’ve linked in the notes for this episode!
Are you interested in sharing your pipe and drape story? You can join the conversation by emailing PipeAndDrapeStories@gmail.com or messaging @PipeAndDrapeStories Instagram. And everyone, please be sure to rate and review Pipe and Drape wherever you listen to podcasts! Each star given or review submitted helps future listeners find the show. Be sure to tune in every other Tuesday to hear theatre for young audiences creatives share their pipe and drape stories. Pipe and Drape is created and hosted by Stephen Fala and distributed by Anchor. The Pipe and Drape logo was created by Stephen Gordon and music was composed by Stephen Fala. Thank you for listening with me today. This week’s Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party music: "The Happy Elf" from Harry for the Holidays by Harry Connick, Jr. Listen to the Tuesday Afternoon Dance Party playlist here!
